Re: [BNW] Improving Powers

[MKirk2112@aol.com]

In a message dated 8/10/2000 10:19:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
whytcrow@io.com writes:

<< No, there aren't any rules, and from what I've heard, there aren't 
 going to be any.  That said, some folks have made versions of house 
 rules to do this.  Check the archives for more info.
 
 Powers are supposed to be improved via Tricks rather than get 
 powerful in and of themselves.
 
 Of course, becoming an Alpha (assuming a time period where Alphas can 
 be created) is a power boost.  We will see Alpha rules in the 
 Crossroads supplement, due out next year IIRC.
 
 Now that I've answered the question, I'm going to ask my own.  Why do 
 you need to improve them, beyond the possibility of Tricks?
 
 I ask this not because I need an answer myself, but b/c you should 
 look closely at the setting, the rules as is, and your own needs to 
 figure out if it is truly necessary or if you only notice the lack in 
 comparison to other systems.  Some things you might want to think 
 about before developing or using a power improvement system:
 
 1.  BNW is a fairly grainy system, and any char improvement can have 
 a pretty hefty impact.
 
 2.  What you give to teh PCs you must also give to the NPCs, making 
 record keeping and NPC generation harder.
 
 3.  The setting indicates that powers themselves don't get better, 
 but that the deltas just get better at using their powers (Tricks) 
 until/unless they become Alphas.
 
 4.  Any rules you use now may conflict with teh upcoming Alpha rules 
 if your game continues until then.
 
 Any of these you can ignore freely, if it suits your campaign, 
 players, and your preferences.  But you should at least be aware of 
 these issues.  Always, when making rules from scratch or modifying 
 existing ones, consider the *results* you are looking for and then 
 adapt the rules to fit.
 
 Jennifer >>

Since I asked this same question a month or so ago, I feel compelled to weigh 
in on the matter ... yes, I can hear the groans in response to my weighing in 
already, and yes this is a long-winded opinion <smile>.

I think that the desire to improve the intensity of delta powers is not just 
an issue of comparing BNW to other superhero games and finding no power 
intensity improvement rules for BNW but finding them in other games.  However 
...

I think Jennifer's point is well taken.  A lot of us "veteran" (damn I hate 
having to take Wanted and Enemy!) superhero game players are used to being 
able to improve our powers by increasing the intensity of the power (thanks 
to Champions and GURPS) not just improving our skill with it or adding a 
trick.  Of course, to me the most interesting thing is that V&V, one of the 
earliest superhero games and in my opinion one of the most enjoyable of all 
RPGs to play in any genre, did not really allow power improvement via 
intensity increases.  The improvements in V&V were more along the lines of 
BNW ... sort of the "skill/trick" mechanic although not exactly the same.  
So, I think that systems that are "point-based" have given rise to this 
belief that the intensity of superpowers should be able to change with 
experience.  So, this gives support for her point that a desire to improve 
power intensities is because we are comparing BNW to these other 
"point-based" superhero games that allow this.

However, I don't think it's that simple.  Comic books are also to blame.  
Those of us who either read or grew up reading comic books (especially 
Marvel) witnessed incredible increases in power intensity levels.  All you 
have to do is look at the X-Men to see this.  All that time in the danger 
room didn't just give Cyclops, for example, more tricks and skill ... his 
optic blast greatly increased in power intensity.  I know in the Marvel game 
the optic blast started out as Remarkable (by started out I mean that this 
was it's level in X-Men #1 when he began as a teenaged hero) and, last I 
checked, is currently Amazing (that's two big power level jumps for those of 
you who are not familiar with the game ... it almost doubled in intensity at 
least as far as points of damage goes).  But, her point about BNW not being a 
four-color comic book universe is also important and right on as well ... I 
wish I could get a lot of my players to realize this!  BNW is not the X-Men!  
It's much more like the Wildcards universe, as many of you have mentioned.  
By the way, if you haven't read the first 6 books in the series, you really 
should.  They're GREEEAAATTTT!  Of course, it's interesting that even in the 
Wildcards universe, power intensities improved.  The Great and Powerful 
Turtle's telekinesis significantly improved, and Golden Boy's force field and 
strength also significantly improved.  So, I guess I'm saying that there is a 
lot of "literary" support for the improvement of power intensities as well, 
not just RPG history.

I think another reason that people want to improve the intensity of powers is 
to make the characters with the same packages look different from one 
another.  The "oh, he's a Blaster and his energy blast is the same power 
level as mine and every other Blaster's energy blast on the planet" is a bit 
humbling and boring, I think.  You just start to feel like your character is 
not so special anymore <laugh>.

I personally think that "official" power intensity improvements will never 
occur in BNW sourcebooks for two reasons.  First, Jennifer is right ... it 
doesn't fit the world concept.  Second, Matt has created a  fast-playing 
simple superhero game.  A feat that should put him in the RPG Hall of Fame as 
far as I'm concerned.  Ever played Champions!?  GURPS Supers?!  Ugh!!!  
Better pack a big lunch and some valium if you are running the game!  Only 
Marvel Superheroes comes close (in my opinion) to being as fast and simple to 
play as BNW.  However, BNW has a very interesting character creation system 
that focuses more on the character than on the powers, which Marvel doesn't 
have.  Allowing power improvements, and having rules for it, introduces a 
whole new level of complexity (as Jennifer points out) into the game, both 
from a record keeping point of view and a playing point of view.  Those of 
you that run BNW know already how hard it is to judge the power level of 
heroes as the rules stand now ... there are pieces of the poor Ripper still 
spread out all over Crescent City after my group got finished with him, and I 
made him much tougher than he was listed in the adventure!  If power 
intensities are allowed to improve, it becomes even more difficult to judge 
these power levels, create challenging enemies, etc.

So, I guess what I'm saying in far too many words is that I agree with 
Jennifer's points 1 and 2.  I think her point 4, that what you do if you 
allow power intensities to improve could really be problematic when the Alpha 
rules eventually come out, is actually the best reason not to allow power 
intensity improvements in your game.

However, I'm in a "Sean from Survivor" mood now (meaning I'm feeling 
wishy-washy and am going to play both sides of the fence).  I am going to 
disagree with her point 3, that powers in BNW are supposed to improve through 
tricks and skills.

The main reason I disagree with her is actually a rules issue (not a game or 
comic book issue like I mentioned above) that I have mentioned on here 
before.  If power packages are supposed to be improved solely through tricks 
and skill, then there would be a 5d6 limit on trait scores that powers work 
off of, like the Goliath's Strength, the Telekinetic's Smarts, the Snuffer's 
Spirit, etc.  As it says on page 58 of the rules, a human limit on trait 
scores is 5 but deltas "push that limit all the time."  Therefore, there is 
no limit on these traits for deltas.  I'm not trying to be a rules lawyer 
here, I'm trying to point out that if you do not allow power intensities to 
improve, some power packages get screwed and some do not.  

For example, some power packages can, actually, increase the power intensity 
of their powers as well as improve via tricks and skills, while other power 
packages can only get better with tricks and skills.  A Goliath can increase 
her Strength dice as high as she wishes, effectively increasing the power 
intensity of her power.  She can also develop more tricks based on her power, 
and she can improve her skill with using her Strength, such as her unarmed 
combat skills.  A Blaster just can't do that.  The game mechanics do not 
allow it.  Sure, she can get more tricks and improve her skill with blasting, 
but she will start the game, and end the game, inflicting 5d6+10 points of 
damage with her blast.  The Goliath may start the game inflicting 5d6+5 
points of damage with her punch, but she could end the game inflicting 10d6+5 
points of damage with her punch (or even higher than that in theory).  Also, 
the Goliath can effectively increase her resistance to the Blaster's energy 
blast attack, and increase the intensity of her own attack (both result from 
increasing Strength), but the Blaster cannot increase the intensity of her 
energy blast attack.  The Goliath's resistance to attacks improves, but the 
Blaster's attack intensity cannot keep up with the Goliath's resistance 
improvement?  To quote Hollywood, "that just don't seem right."

Not only that, I think it's an easy problem to fix.  All you really have to 
do is allow packages like the Blaster to improve the intensity of their 
energy blast or similar powers as if they were a trait.  The energy blast has 
5d6 dice, so if the player wants her character to have a 6d6+10 energy blast, 
she has to pay 18 points for it, just as the player with the Goliath 
character has to pay 18 points to improve her character's Strength score to 
6d6+5.

That said ... I don't allow power improvements as I have outlined in my game, 
I stick to the rules <smile>.  I have faith that 1) Matt knows what he is 
doing and if he didn't put it in the rules, he has a good reason for not 
doing so, and 2) that many people have written into the listserve and said 
that they have not noticed any significant impact of the "rules imbalance" 
problem that I outlined above, and that by adding tricks, the heroes really 
do gain in power and start to "look different" from the other deltas who have 
the same power package.

After all that I said above, why do I not allow power intensity improvements? 
 I certainly seem to be in favor of them.  I don't allow it for precisely the 
reasons that Jennifer outlined ... it doesn't really fit with the game world. 
 And, more importantly, I'm scared to death that when the Alpha rules do come 
out, I'm going to be screwed if I allow these types of improvements.

Sorry this response was so long, but I do think it is important and I have, 
no kidding, put a lot of thought into it.  But all this is just my opinion, 
obviously.  If I was going to allow power intensity increases, I would just 
treat the power like a trait score, as I said before, and have at it.

Guide Matt