Re: [HoE] Junker/Armor ?

["Steve Crow" <crow_steve@hotmail.com>]

>              First off.....your use of the term "hosing" , to me at least,
>says that the GM did something that is some sort of "I say this and you can
>do nothing" call.     You used the term "Bwah hah hah arbitrary Gamemaster"

Not what I intended.  And it certainly seems as if the player was trying to 
be...well, maybe not difficult, but perhaps a bit obtuse.  And there are no 
doubt other factors involved that you didn't mention that I would be curious 
about, and would affect my opinion (for what little it's worth in the 
overall scheme of things :) ) one way or another.

If it's a player trying to abuse the rules and get a bunch of stuff that 
Armor doesn't give them, though, then it's a whole different kettle of fish. 
  If it's a GM trying to load stuff on after the player has built it ("Oh, 
by the way, what about eyeholes?"), that's something else.  Your example 
seems to fall in a friendly in-between.

>and the phrase "Penelize the player for supposedly (mark that word for a
>moment from now please) trying to abuse the rules".     Now to begin
>with.....I take partial responsibility for this as I did not FULLY explain

No problem - you can't cover everything.  Many's the time I've missed 
something in an example I was giving.

>the situation.....it was a Reader's Digest version to illustrate the point 
>I
>was making in regards to the.....let's say power of the Junker 
>(remember...I
>kind of lost the original purpose of the thread).     So allow me to fill 
>it
>out in detail.
>              The Junker in question fully intended to literally be, as I 
>did
>state, covered from head to toe in this armor.......emphasis on the word
>COVERED.     He intended, and voiced these intentions, that even his eyes,
>nose, mouth....ALL parts would gain the benefit of the armor's protection.
>  This came up when she (the GM), in passing,  jokingly stated that she
>guessed that she'd have to start going for those eye shots on him.     It 
>was
>after his tirade that she stated that if the armor didn't have some method 
>of
>allowing him to see, hear, breathe, then his choices were ..... A> Leave
>these areas uncovered and thus unprotected       B> Devise some power(s) 
>that
>would allow such (and character DID have the power Sensor.....there was the
>sight and hearing)         or C> Put on the suit and suffocate as per the
>rules for not being able to breathe.     Such abilities, and I can only 
>speak
>for myself, DO NOT go without saying ("That goes without saying",,,,,a 
>phrase

I think we agree on that - see below.

>that has infuriated me while running games for years!).     Your opinion 
>that
>a gamemaster that would do "this kind of thing" is a terrible thing, as
>alluded to in your post, is strange to me.       It seems to me that what 
>she
>did was to maintain the rules and game balance with calmness and a logical
>rationale.   In MY opinion, that's what a gamemaster is supposed to do.

In this case, the player seemed to understand all the ramifications of what 
he was trying to accomplish.  Although I'm still not totally clear if the 
player was _deliberately_ trying to build Life Support into the armor or 
not.  If your GM came up with such a Power, I'd be curious to see what it 
is.

If a player does _not_ (as your original example seemed to indicate, and I 
apologize for any misunderstanding) understand all the ramifications, then 
I'm still of the opinion that this _is_ a terrible thing for a GM to do.

>              The example was stated....."If building a car with Locomotion
>power, you wouldn't need to use the Light power to give it headlights".     
>I

Actually, I said that it would _seem_ like you wouldn't need to use the 
Light power.  I think that when folks build a Locomotion device, this isn't 
something they think of - they assume it comes part and parcel with it.  I 
suffer under no such miscomprehension, but I've had to call folks up on it 
once or twice.  Not because they're trying to get away with something (as 
the player in your example seemed to be doing so), but because it's just 
something that's easily overlooked.

>disagree with this.     That's also saying that the Temprature power isn't
>needed to keep you warm or cool because cars have A/C and heaters.
>Trouble is.....the one (a car) was made on an assembly line and the other
>(the Junker device that WORKS like a car) was the product of "Junker 
>Magic".
>    That, in my humble, is the main difference between Junker made gear and
>the mundane, mass produced items,,,,, armor, cars, weapons, beer coolers,
>whatever.     And that, again in my own opinion, is another..... let's call
>it Limitation....on the Junker.     If a Syker doesn't have the Telekinesis
>power, he can't move a rock with his mind even if he IS a TK specialist.
>Same thing, to my way of thinking, with the Junker and his powers.
>              In closing, that statement '"supposedly trying to abuse the
>rules"..... well I think I've expalined that there was no 'supposedly' 
>about
>it.     I didn't see it that way...still don't.     None of the other 
>players
>did....even the Junker in question agreed when the rationale was explained 
>to
>him.       If you still feel that it was "arbitrary" or some "GM power 
>trip"
>that's fine.....I felt the need to get the entire tale out there.     That
>was it...agree or disagree.     I wouldn't have just "allowed" that either.
>   Guess I'm one of those GMs too.     Ahhh well.....back to the corner.
>Must cackle insanly
>

I don't think it was a GM power trip given your further clarification of it. 
  The player's issues still strike me as a bit odd.  But he seems to suffer 
from some of the same misconceptions that I myself have seen as far players 
expecting to get certain stuff, and was my original point.  However, it 
hardly seems worth further discussion unless you want to continue the thread 
in private.

>Bwah Ha Ha Ha Ha
>
>Later Days
>Reb
>("In every world, every dimension, every Plane of Existence...I AM the 
>REBEL!
>[X])


---

Steve Crow

"Worm Can Opener Extraordinare"

Check out my website at:  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/4991/

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