Re: [HOE] harrowed and faith- spoiler

[Matt and Teresa Steflik <grifflik@stny.rr.com>]

I wrote (and let's throw some Harrowed, etc. spoiler space in there):
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> > Would someone care to discuss the pros and cons of "Supernatural
> Trait:
> > Spirit" to me from a manitou's POV?

Dirk Responded:

> Pro: The Manitou get's to use it too.
>
> Con: none
>
Ah.  Well, if you're in the "manitous _can_ use a doomie's powers when
in control" camp (as I am), that's correct.  For those taking the
opposite viewpoint, consider the following (well intended, rambling and
hopefully not too far off the mark) rant:

Since a doomie's power is governed by the faith aptitude, which is part
of the Spirit trait, why would the manitou allow a harrowed doomie
access to it if it couldn't reap the benefits of a supernaturally raised
Spirit as well?  And don't give me some nonsense regarding "the manitou
doesn't have any choice in the matter".  Harrowed powers are ultimately
there to spread fear and scare the bejeezuz out of normal folks - the
manitou is looking forward to playing with them too  Think of it as
extras or maintenance that you'd put on a house to make it a more
comfortable place to live. Further proof of this is the caveat that
states that powers "should fit you characters edges, hindrances or
background" - you may think you're choosing the powers, but the thing in
your head animating your corpse is really the one that's deciding what
color the new sofa in the living room will be based on the existing
decor (so to speak).  I mean you wouldn't want to put white aluminum
siding on southern gothic revivalist mansion. (hmm..comparing harrowed
powers to aluminum siding...trippy). And then there's dominion. While it
doesn't say anywhere that I've seen, I'm of the opinion that as the
Harrowed's Spirit die raises, so does the manitou's.  It doesn't make
sense otherwise.  Why the heck would a manitou go along with that one?
But on to the bigger issue...

IMHO (note that, please) Faith (and thus Spirit by association) does not
equate to the rather nebulous concept of "soul", at least not any more
than Smarts or Knowledge equates to the similarly nebulous concept of
"mind".  Faith is a measure of personal belief in something, be it a
god, the basic goodness of your fellow man, or the fact that children
our our future (teach them well and let them lead the way...show them
all the beauuuty they posses insiiiide....<ahem> sorry). It's not a
uniform thing, and it varies by degree from individual to individual.
But more importantly, in game terms, it represents a mechanic to emulate
and try to assign a value to belief.  Now, to add to that, as Teller
said in his previous post:

> I'm basing my answer on a close reading of CoTA.  Megan Holst (who
> you'll
> meet again in CoS) learned from her studies of ancient Chinese
> secrets,
> meditation, etc, learned how to channel the Glow their her meridians.
> She
> passed this onto Silas, who built up a religion around his own ideas.
> There
> is no overarching diety like a Blessed, so in a sense Doomies "Faith"
> is more
> of an internal, spiritual thing that lets them channel the Glow,
> rather than
> a connection to a god-like higher power that protects their believers.

Ah, yes "an internal, spiritual thing".  Absolutely.  C'mon folks!  They
worship (another loaded term with a variety of interpretation) the power
of the atom fer cryin' out loud!  Are we equating that to a sentient,
omnipotent being that actually gives a crap as to what some wahoo in a
purple robe says or does? Please. No way.  Divine (yet another nebulous
concept) or no, they worship a _power_ and what it can do, and THAT
sounds like "belief" to me.  The "soul" (whatever that may be, other
than "the stuff making up the sum of ones' traits, edges, hindrances and
background and how a player plays them" in game terms I suppose)  has
nothing to do with it.  Since a manitou has access to everything a
Harrowed sees, feels, knows or remembers, it  also stands to reason that
it can tap into what that Harrowed believes if it serves it's purpose of
spreading fear and chaos.  If the Harrowed has the capacity to channel
the Glow through training to use his meridians (whether he knows that's
what the process is really called or not is irrelevant - stranger things
have been done in the name of "religion") and believes that he can do
it, the manitou should be able to do so as well.  When the manitou takes
control, the car doesn't change - just the driver.  The make, model,
bucket seats, AC, corinthian leather and rest of the extras remain the
same.

Well that's what I believe anyway.  I've got faith in the list that I'll
hear something back about it though.

Matt Steflik
Gimme Shelter - http://www.geocities.com/grifflik