Re: [pbmserv-dev] Re: [pbmserv] Palago notation?

["David J Bush" <twixt@cstone.net>]

| >What purpose does notation serve, other than allowing replay, either 
| >with a physical set or with any software which is not part of Gamerz?
| 
| The purpose of this notation is to allow us to play the game on this server.

Us? I use the GUI. I don't type in anything. I just click.

| >I rate the current Palago notation as confusing at best.
| 
| Eh? You type in the number of the spot where you want to place your 
| piece - couldn't be simpler.

Well, yes it could, and it is, with the GUI. The notation is superfluous
for me, for playing here on Gamerz.

If anyone wants to reconstruct a Palago game from the notation, they
would need to use the software you wrote for Gamerz. In other words, as
you admit, it's not portable. IMO any notation scheme should contain
COMPLETE information for reconstructing the game. If you were to describe
the numbering method in the Palago help file, that at least would provide
the needed info. But there are some special cases to consider. Based on
the numbering I see in the game I'm playing, it's clockwise not
counterclockwise. Should adjacency take precedence over angular location
in any circumstances? What happens if two or more tiles are exactly on the
same radial line from the COM? These points should be explained in the
help file, if you intend to keep the current notation.

| >I hope you will consider switching the Palago numbering scheme to 
| >this (rotated clockwise 30 degrees.)
| 
| Maybe, but it will only solve half the problem. Move positions will 
| have consistent numbers between games but this doesn't help much when 
| trying to replay a game with a physical set - try working out where 
| move position 127 is, even using the well-defined spiral ordering! 
| Players would need a mat to play on that shows the position numbers, 
| which detracts from the whole thing.

It might seem difficult at first. Use a small marker to place on the
"zero tile," The tile which starts the game. This marker might be
pointed, to point towards space 1, thus indicating the location and
orientation of the grid numbering system. A player aid could be provided
which lists the numbers of the cells in each of the six directions from
the zero tile. From that, you could work out the number of any cell.

By way of comparison, the current center of mass system would be much
more difficult to use with a real set. 

If you are concerned about an easy to use notation system for physical
games, then a double coordinate grid, perhaps similar to what is used for
Trax, would be one solution, awkward looking or not.

| Other boardless hex tile placement games (Tantrix, Andantino, etc) 
| avoid the problem by not having a notation system at all :)

I don't see Tantrix listed on the Gamerz help page. Andantino is
listed, but it's strictly pbem, not GUI. How do players make moves
in Andantino?