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Re: [pyrnet] LGD breeders (was Shelters and Breeders)



> I have goats and two Pyrs.  Here's what I was told when I was buying them: 
  • > Conformation breeders want looks and body structure as much as they want LGD performance.
    The looks and structure are derived from the standard of excellence for the breed which was created from the requirements of the old shepherds in the Pyrenees Mountains.  They bred the Pyrs for thousands of years to be the ultimate guardian as well as family dog.  Structure is necessary for a good worker, the "looks" are just a coincidence in that what is necessary just happens to be beautiful.
    See the Great Pyrenees Club of America (GPCA) web site at http://clubs.akc.org/gpca/, the standard and illustrated standard links along with other working Pyr related links are below.
  • > Since they must keep the dogs clean and well-socialized, leaving them out in the barn with the goats from birth is not > an option.
    Mine are out in the dirt with everything most all of the time.  Yet I still get them socialized and they get a bath right before going to a show.  They are great at both and everyone always gets a great thrill when they find out they work to.  By the way, socialization is necessary for a good working dog as well.  This way they know how normal people, etc. act and are able to make proper judgement of every situation.  You don't want a "working dog" cowering from a person/people/animals because they don't know what to expect or going for someone for the same reason.  This can all be caused from lack of socialization as well as poor breeding.
 
> I believe that there are two legitimate reasons for raising Pyrenees:  the show ring and the LGD role the dogs were originally > bred to do.  My two dogs were bought from reputable breeders -- of LGDs.  The dogs are healthy, but were bred to live as their > parents lived, do what their parents do, and not come into the house.  The roam with the herd, sleep with the herd, etc.  The > would probably not win any conformation shows, though they're registered.  (The male is beautiful to me, but has a head like > a St. Bernard.)  His coat is horrible just now -- especially since it's been raining all day, and he's been out in the mud.
 
    There is only one legitimate reason for raising Pyrs.  Actually a combination of two things into one.  The love and preservation of the true Pyr.
    The original shepherds did this.  The true Pyr is a confident working dog and family companion that just happens to be beautiful.  The original show people along with most if not all current do this as well.  The original purpose of showing any breed of dog was to evaluate them against their own standard of perfection (in the Pyrs case, taken from working requirements) {not against each other} and award those dogs that best represented the ideal dog of that breed (in the case of Pyrs, the best structure, temperament, movement, etc. for working).
    My dogs come into the house and go right back just fine.  Some of my mentors' dogs are in the house part of the time while the rest are out and then they switch around.  The dogs are wonderful workers and many of these same dogs have won their conformation Championships (as they have the structure, temperament, movement, etc. of a great working dog) and some have even earned their obedience titles.  I haven't been showing long enough (don't get to enough shows) to have championships on mine yet but two of my boys are pointed toward their championships and the older one earned he CGC (Canine Good Citizen) at only 7 1/2 months old and then later his TDI (Therapy Dog International).  Most of the time, however, he's out in the mud with everyone else but puts his heart into whatever we have him do and loves every minute, be it dirty and keeping everything away or clean and visiting people or showing, as do they all.
    Just because a Pyr grows up with livestock, however, doen't guarantee they will be a healthy well bred and true working dog.  Anyone who believes this or that LGDs can never come in the house is just silly.  In the winter when the flocks were brought down from the fields the shepherds in the Pyrenees often had the dogs inside.
    Registration is not a guarantee of quality, health or even being purebred in some cases.  Every dog is beautiful to it's owner but even if his head is heavy, does it really look like a St.'s?  A Pyr head would have to go pretty far to be as heavy and droopy as a real St.'s head.  I suspect he's nicer than you think, maybe not perfect (no dog is) but not quite as "bad" as a St.  :)  [St.'s heads are not bad for St.'s, as far as I know, just wanted to point that out.  I suppose the loose skin could have some consequences.]
    Mine's coats are horrible right now to.  But if I took them and gave them a bath this very moment, they'd be ready to show in just a few hours.  {This includes washing, drying, brushing, etc. and depends on how many I'd be doing.  :) }  If the dog has a proper coat (mentioned in the standard), dirt just falls out.  See the standard at http://clubs.akc.org/gpca/gpcabreed.html and the illustrated standard at http://clubs.akc.org/gpca/gpcaistd.html with all kinds of pics showing the perfect Pyr (for working).  Of course no Pyr (or any dog) is actually perfect but we should try to come as close as possible.
 
> Could a dog bred for conformation do what mine do?  Probably, but if I were to get a 4-6 month old house-bred dog from a > conformation breeder, the chances would be very good that it would take many months to learn how to guard.  During that > time, I might have a dog that would try to play with the stock, try to get back into the house, or one that would have no interest > in guarding my flock.  So ... I'd probably go t a breeder who raises his/her dogs for guarding, and with a flock, rather than for > conformation, and in the house.
> Sandy
> Lynchburg TN
 
    Any dog can take months or even a few years to exhibit guarding behavior and any dog can go right at it extremely early, not like they could do much at three or four months old.  Also any dog from ANY BREEDING may want to play, want attention and/or not want to guard.  You might want to ask Beverly Coate about guarding behavior.  As far as I know she doesn't show but knows the responsibility in breeding true working dogs.  Her web site is http://www.c-c-farms.com/
Her e-mail is bcoate@cwis.net
    You have to be careful, WHOEVER you get a dog from for more that one reason. 
 
Later,
Chrissy
West Union, WV