pyrnet-l-digest-1 Saturday, March 19, 2005
Re: [pyrnet] RE: pyrnet-l-digest.200 Nlduzan@aol.com Re: [pyrnet] RE:Breeding and mean bo lmweisser@comcast.net Re: [pyrnet] RE:Livestock Guardian D lmweisser@comcast.net Re: [pyrnet] RE: pyrnet-l-digest.200 Janna720@aol.com Re: [pyrnet] RE: Herding dogs and Gu lmweisser@comcast.net Re: [pyrnet] RE: pyrnet-l-digest.200 marine6370@sbcglobal.net [pyrnet] Puppy growled over a dea mo nightsky@direcway.com Re: [pyrnet] Puppy growled over a de lmweisser@comcast.net Re: [pyrnet] RE: Herding dogs and Gu Nlduzan@aol.com Re: [pyrnet] RE: pyrnet-l-digest.200 Nlduzan@aol.com Re: [pyrnet] Dirty Dog - Help needed rnjhodgson@eastlink.ca Re: [pyrnet] RE: pyrnet-l-digest.200 rnjhodgson@eastlink.ca
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Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 02:59:32 EST From: Nlduzan@aol.com Subject: Re: [pyrnet] RE: pyrnet-l-digest.20050318-1
Ombre's chicken herding is all instinct or her parents' training. The
chickens are in their own pens, but if one flies out, we need only hold open the
gate and she herds (not chases) it back in. I've never seen her touch a
chicken, and she makes no aggressive moves. Of course, the chickens are afraid
and flutter and squawk, but I've watched carefully and she shows no intention
of doing them any harm.
One day the neighbor called and said she was "chasing chickens", but I
watched out the window a bit before I went out. She was simply "holding" the
chicken by herding it in the corner. As long as the chicken sat still, Ombre
sat down. She only moved when the chicken tried to get out of the corner, and
crowded it back.
She's only 15 months old, and we've not been totally unsuccessful so far
in teaching her some of the people skills, but she seems to instinctively know
the chicken skills. Of course we watch and try to supervise direct exposure,
but she's proving herself trustworthy around them.
I suspect dogs are like people; some more talented than others in various
aspects of their training, but the basic instincts should be there as soon as
Lady understands what you want her to do. They're such copy cats, maybe
you'll just have to herd sheep yourself for awhile and show her how to do it. :)
Nancy
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Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 03:42:25 -0800 From: lmweisser@comcast.net Subject: Re: [pyrnet] RE:Breeding and mean bones
"Judith Stroh Miller" <jsmiller@newmex.com>
<<The problem being with all the poorly bred pyrs coming from puppy mills, ranch and farm breeders,<who are only concerned with the fast buck>,>>
Actually and honestly there are quite a few Pyrs with bad temperaments coming
from kennels and lines that many people on this list would recognize. I don't
think that we can blame it all on puppy mills, ranch and farm breeders. It is
too easy an out. BAD and uncaring breeders is what it is all about.
Linda Weisser Olympia WA lmweisser@comcast.net
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Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 04:04:18 -0800 From: lmweisser@comcast.net Subject: Re: [pyrnet] RE:Livestock Guardian Dogs and Training
<<Since we don't have our sheep yet we haven't worked with her on "guarding", I
am not even sure how to go about it.. I know some of it is instinct but I do
know you have to work with them on that too.. >>
Go to www.lgd.org. There is a wealth of infomation and articles. About 1/2 way
down the page are the instructions about joining the Lgd-L which is a list about
the lgd breeds, and members run from absolutele newbies to people with years of
experience.
Do not wait until you have sheep on your propert.y. Do it now. Learn as much
as you can. Ask a lot of questions and be well prepared.
Linda Weisser Olympia WA lmweisser@comcast.net
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Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 07:59:59 EST From: Janna720@aol.com Subject: Re: [pyrnet] RE: pyrnet-l-digest.20050318-1
heheh oh boy that should be fun! ROFL the dog will be sitting there watching
US herd the sheep..
But I see what you mean :) And yes I am sure we will be trying that. :)
Janna
In a message dated 3/19/2005 2:00:05 AM Central Standard Time,
Nlduzan@aol.com writes:
Ombre's chicken herding is all instinct or her parents' training. The
chickens are in their own pens, but if one flies out, we need only hold open the
gate and she herds (not chases) it back in. I've never seen her touch a
chicken, and she makes no aggressive moves. Of course, the chickens are afraid
and flutter and squawk, but I've watched carefully and she shows no intention
of doing them any harm.
One day the neighbor called and said she was "chasing chickens", but I
watched out the window a bit before I went out. She was simply "holding" the
chicken by herding it in the corner. As long as the chicken sat still, Ombre
sat down. She only moved when the chicken tried to get out of the corner, and
crowded it back.
She's only 15 months old, and we've not been totally unsuccessful so far
in teaching her some of the people skills, but she seems to instinctively know
the chicken skills. Of course we watch and try to supervise direct exposure,
but she's proving herself trustworthy around them.
I suspect dogs are like people; some more talented than others in various
aspects of their training, but the basic instincts should be there as soon as
Lady understands what you want her to do. They're such copy cats, maybe
you'll just have to herd sheep yourself for awhile and show her how to do it. :)
Nancy
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 05:19:23 -0800 From: lmweisser@comcast.net Subject: Re: [pyrnet] RE: Herding dogs and Guardian dogs and birds.
----- Original Message ----- From: <Janna720@aol.com>
<<heheh oh boy that should be fun! ROFL the dog will be sitting there watching
US herd the sheep.. >>
this may well be just a "mistake" of terminology but it is really important to
undersand that these dogs are NOT herding dogs, they are guardian dogs. And in
general guardian dogs should not be herding under nearly every circumstance.
Not herding is the quality that makes them trustworthy with most all stock. Any
kind of bird is more difficult because of the squaking and flapping but the dogs
should not, in general, be allowed to corner chickens and pin them down. See
the excellent article on www.LGD.org about adapting the dogs to chickens.
Linda Weisser Olympia WA lmweisser@comcast.net
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Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 05:45:48 -0800 (PST) From: marine6370@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [pyrnet] RE: pyrnet-l-digest.20050318-1
Hi Nancy:
Have you considered the possibility that NOT ENOUGH Pyrs with the right qualities are being bred? What would happen if EVERYONE spayed or neutered all of their Pyrs, even the ones with great Pyr traits and qualities? The only ones being bred would be coming from the Puppy Mills and The AKC Show Kennels. Perhaps too many Pyrs with good qualities are AUTOMATICALLY being spayed or neutered at an early age and never even evaluated for possible breeding later on in their life.
Food For Thought:
Terry Rickert
Nlduzan@aol.com wrote:
The problem being with all the poorly bred pyrs coming from puppy mills, ranch and farm breeders,<who are only concerned with the fast buck>, many of these pyrs do not have a good temperament!
And that's so sad, but seems to be the way things happen when a breed becomes popular with the general pubic. A mean Pyr, is not a normal Pyr.
Too many people get a dog on impulse without adequate research about the breed, what can be expected, or the maintenance it requires.
Ombre came from a farm breeder, where both her parents are working stock dogs. She was 14 weeks old when we brought her home, and had been raised with chickens - actually sleeping with an old rooster. Perfect guardian for our flock. The extra time with her working parents (and the chickens) was especially valuable to us. As we are not interested in breeding (had her spayed at 8 months) or showing, she is a wonderful dog for our needs. We didn't even send her papers to AKC, so don't know her lineage, but she's a lovely specimen of the breed.
Nancy www.hensteethandfroghair.com
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Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 06:59:12 -0800 From: nightsky@direcway.com Subject: [pyrnet] Puppy growled over a dea mouse - response?
Ok.. the new pup has been great (12 weeks old today). But last night when
my husband was walking him, he picked up a dead mouse and when Jon went to
take it away, the pup seriously growled at him! I dont want to be paranoid,
but I also don't want any kind of food agression or anything starting up.
Since he is a pup, should we roll him on his back when we say "No"? He is
free fed, so really not opportunity to have him "wait" for that food.
Thanks Linda Anderson Night Sky Farm nightsky@direcway.com
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Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 07:21:40 -0800 From: lmweisser@comcast.net Subject: Re: [pyrnet] Puppy growled over a dea mouse - response?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda J. Anderson" <nightsky@direcway.com>
<<Ok.. the new pup has been great (12 weeks old today). But last night when
my husband was walking him, he picked up a dead mouse and when Jon went to
take it away, the pup seriously growled at him! I don't want to be paranoid,
but I also don't want any kind of food aggression or anything starting up.>.
Ah....trying it on for size!! This is not about "food aggression". This is
about "possession aggression".
<<Since he is a pup, should we roll him on his back when we say "No"? >>
Absolutely not. There is no quicker way to start an aggression response and to
get into a dominance battle. At any age.
For a lot of articles on this kind of thing go to:
Alpha Boot Camp and other articles of interest http://www.sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library.htm
<<He is free fed, so really not opportunity to have him "wait" for that food.>>
Then you are just going to have to set him up.
Linda Weisser Olympia WA lmweisser@comcast.net
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Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 10:24:19 EST From: Nlduzan@aol.com Subject: Re: [pyrnet] RE: Herding dogs and Guardian dogs and birds.
dogs should not, in general, be allowed to corner chickens and pin them down
Thank you for the reference, Linda. I will read that article about Pyrs
and chickens. Ombre is our first Grt Pyr and we're still learning what to
expect from her.
As I originally said to Janna, Ombre's litter was raised with chickens
and she has never touched one or ours. When a chicken escapes it's pen, she
maneuvers her body in a manner which causes the chicken to flee in a direction
specifically toward the gate of the appropriate pen. I mistakenly used the term
"herding" to describe this behavior; which, by the way, came as a pleasant
surprise to us.
Although the chicken pens are within the confines of her domain in the
fenced area, she exercises this behavior only when a chicken escapes it's pen;
but she is not charged with the responsibility of 24/7 flock confinement, which
I would consider real "herding". We have 38 chickens and 4 pens. I think she
knows which chickens belong in which pen.
I believe that dogs in general, are a lot like people in general; some
are just smarter than others, or have more useful skills and talents.
Nancy
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Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 10:47:47 EST From: Nlduzan@aol.com Subject: Re: [pyrnet] RE: pyrnet-l-digest.20050318-1
Perhaps too many Pyrs with good qualities are AUTOMATICALLY being spayed or
neutered at an early age and never even evaluated for possible breeding later
on in their life.
You are right Terry, but isn't that decision one for the people who are
breeding the dogs? I'm neither a breeder nor a judge of stock, and have no
desire to be either.
We needed a large, but gentle, guardian for our place, did the research,
and a Gr Pyr fit the bill. An unspayed female out here in the country will
sooner or later produce pups of some kind, and we wanted to avoid that. We
bought the last pup of the litter, so I would assume that if any of her siblings
were of show/breeding quality someone else bought them. Although she is
beautiful to us, I have no idea how a knowledgable judge of the breed would rate
her (but it would be fun to know). We rate her A1 at doing her guardian job.
Nancy
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Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 12:04:14 -0400 (Atlantic Standard Time) From: rnjhodgson@eastlink.ca Subject: Re: [pyrnet] Dirty Dog - Help needed
When we considered retiring out here to the maritimes we had given some
thought to Prince Edward Island, where, for those that don't know, are
renowned for their red soil and it did occur to me that it would play havoc
with a white coated dog so we chose Nova Scotia, but that's not to say that
we would never live there because it does "call" to me sometimes but we
would have to take Toby for a test run and see how horrible it would be.
Hannah our Golden wouldn't be such a trial I don't think.
Jo, Toby and Hannah(Golden)
-------Original Message-------
From: Cynthia Willets Date: 03/18/05 13:31:04 To: pyrnet-l@pyrnet.org Subject: Re: [pyrnet] Dirty Dog - Help needed
Patty -- just tell everyone He is a Pink-a-Knees..Then watch them try to figure that out! LOL
Tea --who can never pass up a good or bad pun.
Patricia Campbell <pcampbell31100@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi. Thanks to all who responded. I guess we'll just have the red/pink pyr
of the neighborhood. He doesn't seem to mind, so I guess we won't either.
We've come to love him so much already, and we now know we'd never have any
other breed.
Thanks again, everyone! site!
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Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 12:21:35 -0400 (Atlantic Standard Time) From: rnjhodgson@eastlink.ca Subject: Re: [pyrnet] RE: pyrnet-l-digest.20050318-1
My golden, Hannah, got into a bad habit of not coming to me in the backyard
when called, I made the mistake of chasing her when she was a pup to try and
get something out of her mouth and it totally backfired, anyway I found that
if I sat on a low step she would come over to me and as long as I didn't
grab for her I usually could get hold of her, then it was just a matter of
getting up from that low step still holding onto her, no easy task!! If it
were Toby, my Pyr, then he would just stand and let me lean on him....I
think that starting the car, Amy is very imaginative, you really do have to
out think them don't you?
Jo, Toby and Hannah(Golden)
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End of pyrnet-l-digest.20050319-1
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