Re: [HOE] Explosions are their own reward, or something.

["Ronnie Gustaveson" <gus_bus@hotmail.com>]

<<<<<We're not disputing that in some cases the old rules resulted in 
ineffectual explosions - only that the new system is flawed in _two_ 
particulars:  1) it is much more lethal _and_ 2) it is more die-rolling 
intensive (not necessarily complicated).  One or the other would be 
acceptable, but both result in a thumbs-down from our group. Your mileage, 
of course, may vary. Doesn't make anyone a liar. :)

The other problem with the extra die-rolling is...it would be fine on its 
lonesome.  But combat is already a remarkably unwieldy die-rolling process 
anyway.  A non-optimal single bullet in combat requires you to:  Roll to 
hit, roll to damage, roll for location, roll for stun recovery check, roll 
for wind.

(HTH combat requires a roll for damage _and_ a Strength check.)

And as for burst and stuff...ugghh.  :)

Now, we're willing to tolerate the existing die-rolling, obviously, or we 
wouldn't be playing Deadlands/HoE  :) .  But did we really need a "fix" to a 
system that requires even more die-rolling...?

A new massive damage rule could simply have doubled the final damage or used 
whatever constant you wish to apply until the amount of damage done by the 
Massive Damage equals the effect intended.

In other words, in the example above for the "old" rules, 24-29 was rolled 
on the 5d10 of damage to Big Red (27.5 is the average, maybe slightly higher 
when you factor in Acing).  As noted this means 4 wnds, and 2 to the guts. 
Simply saying to double that total from 27.5 to 55 would result in 9 wounds 
(4-5 to the guts).  If that isn't good enough, use a triple constant (6-7 
wounds to the guts).  Or whatever the playtest team(s) found to be the best 
result.

Simplify the system further by applying the constant directly to the wounds 
rather than the damage-total.  Reduces the number of hit location 
rolls.>>>>>

I have to totally agree here.
I admit the old system made for some serious wimpiness, in fact I usually 
had to tack on what I called 'Concussion Damage' to make results believable. 
  But I can also remember once speading an hour and a half resolving four 
rounds of combat, (it was a big group, fighting automatons.)  There is 
already a lot of die rolling involved in DL/HOE combat.  The new explosion 
rules simply make it that much worse.

I may have come up with a 'simplier' solution.  Let's try this:

1. Figure the number of wounded locations, (the d6 thing)

2. Roll Damage ONCE to determine the value of the greatest wound. (so for 
example if the Damage is 5d10 and you roll 27 or a critical wound.  That is 
the worst wound infected.)

3. Roll locations (the d20 thing.)

4. Apply the worst wound to the first location, and every Subsequent wound 
simply lower the wound type by one.

5. This result can be repeated with anyone in the Blast area.

Ok, now another example.

Skive goes bust trying to chuck his grenade, and it lands at his feet. It 
goes off doing 4d12 damage.
First the marshal rolls a d6 to determine the number of wound he determines 
Skive takes damage to 4 locations.
Second The marshal rolls 28 points of damage or a 'Critical' wound is the 
starting wound.
Third he rolls hit locations; The first and worst (critical,) wound is to 
the upper guts. The second, a serious wound, goes to his left leg. His right 
arm takes a heavy wound and the last, a light wound goes again to the upper 
guts (whether the damage is cumulative or kept separate, is up to the 
Marshal.)

Now move on to the next person in the blast radius and repeat steps One and 
Three, but don't worry about refiguring damage, that's already been done, 
(the first and worst wound is a critical.)

And let the chips roll.

With armor there will be some different problems, I would do it like this.  
Light armor don't do much unless applied to the damage total from the first 
and worst wound.  Heavy Armor would prevent one wound per AV, but would lose 
one AV for each wound prevented.  Which means it's gonna probably be pretty 
useless after most any kind of explosion.

Now obviously this doesn't cover every possibility.  But why don't we 
discuss those as they pop up.

just an idea,
-Gus
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