Re: [PyrNet-L] Re:French vs US & UK Pyrs

[Schonberg Farms <Schonberg.Farms@Nethawk.com>]

Dianne Migas wrote:
> 
> 
> > 
> I am no breeder but would like to share my thoughts on this.
> In America The Great Pyrenees Standard says that the Pyrenees head should
> have  NO apparent stop.
> The word refined can mean many things, however, NO apparent stop means just
> that. They should not have a head like a Newf or Saint (heavy/coarse with
> apparent stop), nor should it look like a Borzoi (narrow).
> 
> When looking at  head photos of both the Kuvasz & the Pyr, it is my humble
> opinion that what jumps out at you is ear set.  The Kuvasz are up high with
> the tips of the ears pointing towards the face.    Again this is only my
> opinion.    I think the GPCA Illustrated Standard gives a very good example
> of what the Pyr head should not look like.    Consider that the standard
> also does not give exact numerical measurements for head / muzzle etc.   It
> states that it should be equal or proportioned (balanced),(Adrienne said it
> correctly in her other post)  so if you have a short muzzled dog that
> muzzle, length & width of head all being equal - with the head forming a
> wedge shape - than that is correct as with the dog with a longer muzzle &
> length & width being equal.  Either should have No apparent stop.    Many
> people seem to have no problem understanding wedge shape but can't
> understand no apparent stop?   The standard leaves a lot a room for length
> variations but is real specific several  on other points.
> 
> Back to the original topic:   As Charlotte said this is a very interesting
> topic - photos I have seen of the French dogs seem to be less in bone while
> the pyr's from England seem to be greater in bone both being taller - in
> America I think we fall somewhere in between - Again with our standard -
> what is medium bone?   Borzoi's are light?   Newf.'s are big boned?
> Balance is key - so if you have a dog with a broader back and is tall than
> shouldn't he have more bone to be in balance?    What happened to elegant,
> majestic/regal???   What's up with all this long long coat everywhere?   I
> see a lot of little "tanks" (not puppies but older dogs)?
> 
> I can go on with questions - I would love some answers please!    I am
> trying to learn but it seems it all depends on what region you are from!
> I think I am more confused than ever!    HELP!
> 
> Thanks
> Dianne
> jdmigas@email.msn.com


Dianne!

You have done a little research.  Wonderful!!!   Yes, Kuvasz heads are
supposed to be different: ear set, stop, body size, bone, movement,
coat, and of course temperament.  

But there is so much comparison between the two breeds because of the
similarities.  The Kuvasz does have a wedge shape head type as well as
the pyr.  Eyes are almond as well as the pyr.  

However, the temperament between the two are the key points.  Aggressive
versus "the gentle giant".

But with the pyrs in Europe, you will see the old style which some
breeders are trying to go back to.(in Michigan) But the transition is a
little poor.  You get small boned, movement ok but not great, small
heads, too much coat, and they are a little on the shy side.  And then
they are compared to the Kuvasz which in this case they look alike.

I think instead of mixing so many different types together.  Why not
import some European dogs to bring back the old type.  If that is what
everyone in Michigan is striving for.

I have seen some photos as well of Pyrs from Europe that are on the
stocky side.  But the heads do seem a little off balance to the rest of
the body.

I believe Balance is the key point.  Overall balance, movement, and type
makes an excellent example of the breed.

Susan Dunn
Schonberg.farms@nethawk.com