[PyrNet-L] Chat, Behavior: pyr that bit

[MagEBroD@aol.com]

In a message dated 98-06-10 07:10:41 EDT, Joe wrote:

<< Did the vet think the attack was loving and gentle?  What is the vets
 recommendation? >>

   I have to agree with Joe's comments on his posts. I personally think the
child victim's physician would be a better judge of how vicious the attack
was, though. 
This letter is directed at owners of pyr that bit, in hopes it will be passed
along to them and also to others on the list for their consideration.
   I have experienced, between myself, hubby & kids the following kinds of
attacks:

     --playful nips from pups, who are excited and not trained enough yet.

     --The "Whoa, Hold it right there": where they hold your arm in          
        their mouth tightly, but do not break the skin.

     -- Repeating shred you to pieces type attacks (only survived because of
heavy
         full-length woolen cape that I used like bull-fighter.
    
     -- Attack by chew-er that got good hold and kept chewing the part, doing
lots of     
        damage inside to muscles and tendons, although only leave small
puncture    
        wounds, but cause horrible infections and swell horribly and take
about five to     
        six months to heal.
     
     -- The block-your-escape-er that tells you you aren't getting away that
easy. 
        Then proceeds to bite hard and break skin and keeps you hostage biting
        every now & then to remind you how serious he is.
   
      -- The one that gives no warning whatsoever and suddenly springs and
goes for     
         either the face or neck, viciously biting once, getting it out of his
system and  
         then stopping.  

     -- Then there's the one who springs and goes for the face or neck, biting
         viciously repeatedly, doing much damage.
   
     -- As well as many variations on these themes.

    Now picture each scenario with a very large, strange dog. Which would you
feel OK about? 
   Picture it with no one nearby to answer your screams in time. Still feel OK
about it?  
   Picture it being your child ....still feel OK? 
   Picture it being your child with no one around to intervene...still feel
OK? 
   Picture damage that could be
done....physically........emotionally.......scarred for life......both
emotionally & physically....... maybe losing their sight.......
   Maybe forever terrified of dogs and never able to relax around them and
experience the kind of relationship we have with our pyrs and other dogs.....
   Maybe never able to have certain jobs that involve going to strangers homes
to repair, install, sell, deliver, treat, do work there, volunteer to help or
solicit help for charities, etc. Still feel OK?
   (Just for clarification: my children who were attacked in the face on
separate occasions were doing nothing to tease the dog!! One was playing
quietly with legos. The other was playing a Sega or Atari game 5 feet from
dog, but making normal noises associated with playing those games. There were
no barks or growls before attacks. Thank God they were witnessed by adults and
adults were able to intervene, but not before each had wounds by eye: one 1/4
inch away, other 1/2 inch away. Both still carry the tiny physical scars 10-14
years later. Neither owner put their dogs down or even considered it to my
knowledge. Neither even asked if there were any Dr. bills. My kids never set
foot in their homes again while those dogs were alive. One was owned by my
cousin & other was owned by neighbour that had grandkids that liked to play
with my kids. I have also had neighbours' dogs come on MY property 4 acres
away from their property and bite my kids and their friends who were riding
bikes on OUR property. In all cases they were shocked that their sweet dog
would do such a thing, totally unprovoked and without warning. Plus their dogs
block easement and act mean to those who try to pass. No one will walk past
their place on easement. Others always drive to their mailboxes and bus stop
to be safe. Their dogs also used to come on our property and try to get our
livestock and killed 18 of other neighbour's chickens & neighbour finally gave
up on having chickens, even though they bought this place to retire to so they
could garden and have chickens! If you try to talk to them about it they say
that they feel their dogs are the protectors of the neighbourhood!! (Rather
something we all should be protected against!!)
   Most people are bitten by dogs that the owners say never bite. Of course
most attacks are never reported to proper authorities, either! If you are
attacked, I urge you to report it!! I always wonder when you hear these
comments on TV whether all their neighbours and delivery persons would agree
that these dogs never attacked before.
   The times I and hubby were attacked were usually when delivering items to
that house as a part of our job. (Floral deliveries for me & mail for hubby),
but have also been attacked when 8 mos. pregnant just walking down country
road, past doberman's house (luckily I had woolen cape on that saved me). Once
tried to deliver floral bouguet to someone and they had a German Shepard and
he was tied up. I went to put floral arrangement in a protected spot and
turned around and dog was now between me and florist's van, growling and
snapping. He bit me once on leg. I eventually faked him out and pretended I
was going one way & when he ran to that door of van I ran to other! Next time
I was to deliver there I tried to refuse. I was told I had to, but could wait
until someone was home to control the dog. I called ahead and owner said his
dog would never bite. He said to come on out as he was home. I arrived and
beeped horn and he wouldn't come to van to get flowers. He motioned for me to
bring them to him. He said "It's Ok he won't bite!" I walked forward and man
let go of dog to take flowers and dog bit me in thigh ripping pants and
ripping flesh!!! I never returned! Also reported it! Latest attack I suffered
was when I went to buy some shelves advertised for sale in paper. People told
me to come over at specific time and I arrived and I could hear a vicious-
sounding dog in another room. They explained that he always wants to get at
people who come over, but he's fine if not at home and on walks. I paid cash
for shelves and we loaded them up in van. Then they showed me some other
furnishings they had for sale & I decided to buy an end table, too. However
I'd only brought enough cash for shelves. They said they would take a check.
The man picked up end table and I went out to open up my van again. I started
to write out check there by van outside, but due to rain man insisted I come
inside to write it out. He opened door for me and motioned me in. I got one
step and was attacked by dog that chewed my foot badly and man had to pry his
dogs jaws open to get my foot out of his mouth. Wife had erroneously thought I
was not returning & let dog out of room he was locked in.
I went to hospital ER immediately and they called them to verify that dog had
rabies shots. They denied dog had bitten me!! I reported it to animal control
and told them I needed their homeowners insurance co. Told both the ins. co.
and animal control to go check it out for themselves, after owners also told
them I hadn't been bit. Also had damaged shoe and wounds and DR.'s reports to
back it up!  
  Now, lest you think we don't get along with dogs - it's simply not true! I
am less scared of dogs than anyone I know & can usually avoid trouble. Plus we
have friends that say we are the only ones their dogs like and bond to. Have
rescued many abandoned & abused dogs and they can to trust us completely. Also
have done wildlife rescue, so I am very experience with all animals, including
injured ones that are wild, whether foxes, raccoons, possums, porcupines,
rabbits, bats, squirrels, chipmunks, deer, up to 80 orphaned fawns at a time
(that had to all be bottle fed and some needed to be fed through tube down
throat to stomach), and even an elk that had been shot with arrow! It's just
that the volume of times that I and my hubby have had to go to strangers
homes, makes it inevitable that we'll get attacked sooner or later. Ask any
mailman that's been on the job for 10-15 years with a route where they walk
seven miles a day, instead of driving most of the time, and I bet you can't
find one that hasn't been attacked. Finally started carrying pepper spray, but
you can't use it if windy. Plus usually your hands are full and it's not easy
to access it quickly sometimes. One certain dog always chases my hubby and
will ram head into side of mailtruck when hubby jumps in and closes door! Then
he'll attack wheel viciously, even when he starts to drive slowly forward and
this flips dog and slams him into ground. After a few times of this he'll go
to front of truck and bite bumper and brace his feet and try to hold moving
truck and keep it there. Owner just laughs and says he thinks dog's been
brain-dead for ages! Laughs until mail is stopped for him and neighbours and
they are all mad at him. Then he'll try to control dog for a few days. Always
starts all over again soon. 
   As a scouter for years we would do clothing drives and food drives to help
the needy. I always told each scout to rattle the gate before entering
someone's yard, as if there was a dog outside it would come running and
barking then. Then don't enter yard!!  One time I didn't give my speech
because someone was in a big hurry and that time a scout was attacked and
bitten. 
   I have never owned a dog that bit anyone. Still the rule at our house when
kids were young and played rough with their friends was that they could not
have dogs out of kennel when friends were over, unless adult was right there
and had control of dog. I was always afraid dogs could misinterpret the kids
playing and being dramatic for a fight or threat to one of our kids and
possibly bite thinking they were protecting our kids from other kids. Just was
not a chance I want to take. And this is with dogs with no history of ever
biting!! Dogs that love kids!!
   Do you feel OK about keeping such a dog that has already done so much
damage when he overreacted and misjudged the situation before?? 
   Do you feel OK in that you are sure you will never again have to be in the
bathroom or cooking or on the phone and not there when door is opened again?
If it happened before it can happen again!!
    Do you feel OK in that you may be able to adequately restrain dog in a pen
or kennel? The list is full of stories about Pyrs escaping what seem like
escape-proof pens!! Plus kids can open kennels and pens and reach in them,
too.
   You cannot control this dog 100% of the time - that's obvious! You also
cannot control actions of others that dog may come in contact with. So it's my
opinion thatyou should do the world a favor and put the dog down. I know it's
hard. It's hard when they are old and suffering, too, but necessary sometimes.
It's too bad that he became aggitated and confused and flustered, but he still
reacted totally inappropriately. I would not want to keep a dangerous, vicious
dog such as this one. There are plenty of dogs out there that are not vicious
that need your love and a home. Don't take any more chances with this dog. And
don't feel guilty - the dog made the choice to act that way. For safety's sake
he should not be given any more chances. The price someone must pay for
possible mistakes in judgment he may make are just too high!! Make the
responsible choice and make the world a bit safer. Excuses serve no useful
purpose in this discussion. The dog viciously attacked a child. Now it must be
dealt with in a way that protects others from being hurt.
   (I feel the same about criminals that attack. I'm not interested in hearing
their excuses and pleas that they need help. The time to get help is before
you hurt someone, not after!! If psych. help or AA or rehab is to help, it
must be the person's idea because they want to change, not because they have
something to gain in way of lighter sentence or shorter time or easier time.
They should get treatment, but not get any benefit from it other than the
benefit of hopefully becoming a better person and a model prisoner for their
entire sentence!!)
   First priority must be to keep society safe!!  This was such a tragedy for
all involved. I may sound unfeeling, but that's not the case all. My heart
really goes out to all those concerned, victim and dog owners alike. What a
horrible thing to have happen to you all.

Janice Vocke
MagEBroD@aol.com