Re: [PyrNet-L] BREDDING:American verses French

[JGentzel@aol.com]

In a message dated 4/28/99 5:59:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
bamb@monmouth.com writes:

<<  They are entitled to their opinions also. Most good breeders
 want to breed a dog that is structurally correct, with good
 temperament and as few health problems as is humanly possible. Anyone
 who is going to decide to breed should do their homework in these
 areas. I'd rather see a Pyr that is coarse headed and with too much
 bone than one who is elegant and lovely headed but with major
 structural defects or health problems. >>

It is not really an either or proposition relative size and soundness.  
Soundness is not just absence of genetic problems like dysplasia.  It is 
movement and structure confirmation more IMHO.  While we have developed the 
best moving pyrs in the world here in the North America we have lost size and 
a lot of type.  I think many of us agree that if you no longer have the type 
or size, you may have crossed the line relative the attributes of the breed.  
We have instead gone with large bone and heavy bodies as a substitute and 
attempt to keep size.  This at the expense of elegance.  They are not the 
same.  There is a middle ground that the breeders who study and really 
understand can work toward.  

<<Sometimes they may look a little
different than what we may envision to be the "perfect" Pyrenees but
to each breeder the interpretation of the standard may be a little
different than what ours may be. You know what you like, I know what I
like and someone else knows what they like.>>

Without meaning to be critical at all of your comments, I believe this is at 
the core of the problem.  Many do know what they like and it is not 
necessarily Pyrenean in nature.  Many have no clue what is correct to begin 
with. Look at the old pictures of Estat and his brother Estagel.  Look at any 
picture of a "de Soum" dog and you know this is the type that is the Great 
Pyrenees.  Look at the head.  Is it flat on top?  Are the supraorbital ridges 
apparent?  Is there a furrow between the eyes?  Do the eyes droop or are they 
round?  Do the ears sit above the level of the eyes?  Does the skin from the 
upper jaw hang below the lower jaw?  The stop or too much of it is a result 
of the above traits i.e. is these are correct chances are there will be no 
apparent stop as the standard prescribes.  These are the primary problems I 
see in type both here and abroad, but much more common here.  Almost to the 
point that it is accepted in many quarters as correct.   

Joe