Re: [PyrNet-L] Westminster

[Kshoffman@aol.com]

In a message dated 02/16/2000 7:53:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
JGentzel@aol.com writes:

<< I am sure most of you know by now that the English Springer Spaniel, 
Salelyn' 
 Erin's Shameless went Best In Show at Westminster last night.  I could not 
 help but think seeing this flawless dog about a recent discussion on the 
list 
 of linebreeding, how this dog is the ultimate product of linebreeding.  
Julia 
 Gasow wrote one of the definitive books on the subject.  This lady, Julia 
 Gasow,  who passed away recently practiced what she preached.  Last night's 
 winner was preceded by her father just a couple years ago as Best In Show at 
 Westminster.   >>

Joe, I've never denied that linebreeding is the easy way to consistently 
produce generations of beautiful dogs, but what about the things we can't 
see?  How is the bitch's health?  How is the health of all her collaterals 
and her ancestors?  Does anyone really know?  CAN anyone really know? Can you 
gauge that from watching a dog on TV at Westminster or from any other dog 
show results for that matter?  I think not.

I happen to be acquainted with the owners/backers of Samantha's sire Robert 
(the great CH. Salilyn's Condor) who went BIS at Westminster in 1993 I 
believe.  I've always gotten the impression from them that the Salilyn line, 
just like most other intense linebred programs, have had their share of the 
bad as well as the good ... and that involves non-visible traits as well as 
visible traits.  They have the dreaded skeletons in their closet just as most 
other breeding programs do so make no mistake about that. The bitch, 
Samantha, is quite beautiful and striking, just like her father and their 
many linebred ancestors before them, but trust me, not every representative 
of the bloodline is living in Camelot. None of them are genetically perfect.

I still stand by my assertion that linebreeding increases defect rates, and 
that linebreeding is not the ONLY way to consistently breed pretty dogs that 
win and that can produce pretty dogs that can win. The Belgian Tervuren who 
made the cut in the herding group is out of a total outcross breeding between 
a Canadian born sire (out of two Belgian imports) bred to a bitch from 
generations established American lines.  10-generation inbreeding coefficient 
on this dog and his litter is 3.6%.  It was a litter of 6 boys, 5 of the 6 
have finished their championships and they don't turn 3 yrs old until April.  
The male that was represented in the group last night has several Regional 
Specialty wins, a National Specialty select, several puppy sweepstakes wins, 
and an all-breed BIS under his belt won at 20 mos of age. (Not many Belgians 
in history have taken all-breed BIS.)  One of his brothers is also a group 
winner.

His sire is a gray (NOT a favored color) and was Canadian National Specialty 
winner under a European judge in 1998.  His sire also placed 6th and was 
rated excellent in the very large open male class (80+ dogs or so as I 
recall) then went on to be awarded the coveted "s.r." designation both at the 
prestigious French National Specialty in 1998. The dam of the Westminster 
Belgian Tervuren dog also has many specialty wins and a National Specialty 
select to her credit.  The pedigree is strong in health, beauty, and 
temperament from all over the globe, but it is not linebred unless you take 
it back to 20 generations or more, and this pedigree produced.

Will the dog and his brothers also be able to produce pretty dogs being out 
of such an extreme outcross breeding?  Who knows, it remains to be seen.  
This dog has three litters on the ground right now, all younger than 4 mos of 
age.  I can tell you that his sire certainly seems to be prepotent no matter 
what he is bred to so we shall see.

There's more than one way to produce pretty show dogs who have it all, and 
hopefully good health is at the top of that list.  Linebreeding simply is not 
the only way to accomplish those things.

By the way, in case anyone is wondering "s.r." in French stands for sujet 
recommande, and translates to subject recommended for breeding.  Only a few 
to a couple of dozen (across all Belgian varieties) are awarded each year by 
a panel of 3 judges as part of the French National Specialty.  To be eligible 
for consideration a dog must be 18 mos of age or older, have a passing hip 
xray on file, pass the second level of the French character/mentality test 
(test de comportement) conducted at the specialty, and be rated excellent in 
their class. It is quite an honor for a non-European owned/bred dog to 
receive this coveted award.  Ghosty (sire of this year's Westminster winner 
in Belgian Tervurens) was either the first or second North American bred dog 
to do so I believe and this is quite an accomplishment, especially 
considering he is a gray. (The FCI standard does states that grays can't be 
rated excellent nor are they eligible to compete for the CAC/CACIB, but the 
French have always had their own ideas about the grays and they basically 
ignore these little pieces of the standard <g>).  At this past year's French 
specialty in Aug. 1999, another 4 or 5 North American owned and/or bred dogs 
were awarded the s.r. designation.

Kelley Hoffman
kshoffman@aol.com