[PyrNet-L] Canine Nutrition and Puppies

[Carol Brescher <carol@pyr.uniflex.net>]

Jan and all,

Coming in here way behind and very late on this discussion of nutrition.
And I must have missed some of the posts because I don't know what
triggered the anger in Jan's email. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading your
exploits, but am stunned at the anger over feeding Pyrenees puppies
a natural diet.

I am a proponent of natural foods. I have owned (and used to breed)
Pyrs for over 30 years, and the last 15 years or so I have fed exclusively
what many call a home prepared diet.

However, I have never raised a Pyrenees totally on natural foods. When we used to

breed, we weaned the puppies on a natural diet formulated by a breeder I
had a great deal of respect for: Top round raw and minced, baby rice cereal, dry
non-fat milk, I cannot now remember all the ingredients, but it worked
beautifully.

Then we began to mix this with the commercial stuff, to get them
"presentable" to their new homes. And those we kept ate commercial
as well.

I started on natural foods in 1985, and our Patou was a real foodie.
But he was already 5 yo when I started him on this. The only puppy I
raised on natural foods is the bitch I have now - the Ragin' Cajun.
She was 11 weeks old when I got her from her breeder, and was eating
commercial. I had grave doubts about my ability to feed the "proper
amounts" in the right proportions. But I weaned her off the commercial
anyway, and we started on non-commerical foods. Now I do use Pitcairn
as a guide, although I do not use bone meal (use egg shells instead) ,
and I cook my meats. Other than Vitamins C and E, and an occasional
multi-vitamin no supplements are given. I also have an extremely supportive
vet in this area, who has a nutritionist on the staff, and any minor issues were
discussed as well. Cajun's growth was well charted, and blood work periodically
monitored.

I never had an opportunity to place Cajun next to her litter sister, but my
correspondence with the breeder throughout her growth indicated
a rate of growth a good two weeks behind her litter mates. I was told
by both of my vets that dogs on natural foods grow slower than dogs on
commercial food, and this is of great benefit to our larger breeds. Cajun
consistently weighed 5 to 7 lb less than her litter sister.

But Cajun had predictable growth spurts. She would get ravenous, eat up
a storm, then grow like mad. I always fed her as much as she wanted
to eat, more food was offered if she finished everything. When she played
Hoover and snarfed up everything, I'd tell my husband she was about to
grow again. And grow she did. Before your eyes.

No bone problems, no pano, no other painful or debilitating problems related
to too fast a growth. I admit, we have had other problems with Cajun,
some very serious and life threatening problems. But no growth problems
related to a home prepared diet.

I agree here that while less is more, a dog, tuned into his/her own body
will self regulate and the growth will occur at the optimum rate for the
individual dog. Cajun grew slower than her litter sister, but ultimately reached
her genetically programed size: the same weight as her litter sister.

And without a doubt, good nutritious food must be available for the growing
dog. However, other than the ground egg shell a few times a week, with milk,
cottage cheese, hard cheeses and yogurt she got adequate calcium
for her necessary growth. Her blood tests have repeatedly indicated
a correct level.

We all have swallowed the manufactures line that we don't have the secrets
to good nutrition that only they possess. They and the vets brainwash adult
(usually) women into believing that while they might be capable of feeding
themselves, or their children who may grow up to be doctors or teachers,
but we don't have adequate knowledge to feed the family canine couch
potato. And they further intimidate you into believing that this knowledge
cannot be acquired by anyone with less than Mensa mentality. Not so.
Common sense goes really far in this arena.

So I don't think that feeding a natural diet to a Pyr Puppy is cruelty. Done
without a good grounding in nutrition, its chancy. But with guidence, and good
life lines like supportive vets, its a great way to raise a pup.

Takes a lot to get me out of lurkdom, but this is an issue I felt I had
to take issue with.

Off my soap box for now.

Carol Brescher Boyle preferring to be at NaturalDogFood.Com, but
    currently at Uniflex.Net

>  Ignorance is bliss I know this but in one case
> ignorance was not bliss but sheer stupidity and could have been avoided with
> "correct nutrition".  Until one has bred and raised Pyr puppies  to try and
> "experiment" using Pyr puppies disgusts me.  The suffering from HOD that a
> puppy goes though is unnecessary in this day and age in my opinion with all
> the information now available.  You accelerate the growth rate, you get the
> problems you deserve but the puppy does not.  All may not agree with the
> prepared puppy foods of today but why risk your puppies in uncharted waters?
> Why not put them onto a large breed puppy formulated food then when the
> growing is done put them onto your own "homeprepared" diet.  I would like to
> see the people who promote the "home diets" and know the exact
> calcium/calorific dietary requirements for my Breed tell me that their
> puppies from 8 weeks have not suffered any growth problems also keeping in
> mind that "genes" can  have an effect on growth patterns too.  To subject
> your puppy to HOD, OCD just to mention 2 things because you wish to play
> "Food Roulette" and prove your point is tantamount to cruelty in my opinion
> when the puppy suffers joint problems.  Is there anyone out there who has
> raised Pyrenean puppies successfully by not using the prepared puppy foods
> and not suffered any growing problems with their youngsters? I have made
> mistakes but I have made them through ignorance, not knowledge nor
> experiments on my puppies.
> Jan
> Jan Chaplin Ariege-Roussillon Pyreneans.