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[pyrnet] Re: pyrnet-l-digest.20000718
Hi Linda and Gracie,
Thanks for looking at my sweet puppies and Willow. All my Pyrs are what I
call farm dogs. They guard the whole perimeter of our acreage. I couldn't
stand for them not to be a part of our family, but they do their job as a
Large Guardian Dog. We raise Alpine,Oberhasli,and Recorded Grade Dairy goats
for show and personal use. We use the milk for butter,cheese,ice cream, and
anything else you would use milk for. I've seen Pygmy Goats at shows. Do you
show your goats? Besides Willow I also have Sampson who is a 6month old male
Pyr and I will keep one o f Willow's puppies (of course). Good thing we have
a large area for them. I will be keeping a female and I was thinking of
calling her Gracie. Haven't decided yet for sure they don't quite have their
personalities yet so I may change my mind. I haven't even decided which one
to keep. Narrow it down to one or two and then another one will do something
cute. Maybe I'll keep them all till they are 21 just like real kids.
Diana -----
Original Message -----
From: <pyrnet-l-owner@pyrnet.org>
To: <pyrnet-l-digest@pyrnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 9:59 PM
Subject: pyrnet-l-digest.20000718
> pyrnet-l-digest Tuesday, July 18, 2000
>
>
> [pyrnet] Re: Goodbye Molly sandybear@intercity.dk
> [pyrnet] Molly's passing smaturo@teamcompass.com
> [pyrnet] Re: pyrnet-lDiana, goats & Norjet@aol.com
> [pyrnet] not sure about trainer's me kgranju@yahoo.com
> Re: [pyrnet] not sure about trainer' bamb@monmouth.com
> Re: [pyrnet] not sure about trainer' mushroom@gator.net
> RE: [pyrnet] not sure about trainer' Marci.Gruhlkey@asc.mhmr.state.tx.us
> Re: [pyrnet] not sure about trainer' kdbooth@mindspring.com
> Re: [pyrnet] not sure about trainer' janices@austin.rr.com
> Re: [pyrnet] not sure about trainer' kdbooth@mindspring.com
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to esquire@pyrnet.org with
> unsubscribe pyrnet-l-digest
> as the BODY of the message. The SUBJECT is ignored.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:43:09 +0200
> From: sandybear@intercity.dk
> Subject: [pyrnet] Re: Goodbye Molly
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BFF094.33613D60
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Dear Barb
>
> I am very sorry for you, it must have been so hard for you and your =
> family, but you did the right thing letting her go the bridge. I send =
> you my deepest sympathy.
>
> Lene Nielsen
> sandybear@intercity.dk
> http://home.intercity.dk/~ic0795/
>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BFF094.33613D60
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> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
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>
> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
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> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>Dear Barb</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>I am very sorry for you, it must have been so =
> hard for=20
> you and your family, but you did the right thing letting her go the =
> bridge. I=20
> send you my deepest sympathy.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>Lene Nielsen</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><A=20
> href=3D"mailto:sandybear@intercity.dk">sandybear@intercity.dk</A></FONT><=
> /DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><A=20
> href=3D"http://home.intercity.dk/~ic0795/">http://home.intercity.dk/~ic07=
> 95/</A></FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BFF094.33613D60--
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:56:02 -0400
> From: smaturo@teamcompass.com
> Subject: [pyrnet] Molly's passing
>
>
> Barb,
> It always saddens us to hear of another pyr crossing over to the bridge.
> We send our best to you and your family.
> Stephanie, Ed, and furkids, Dexter and now Gala
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:09:56 EDT
> From: Norjet@aol.com
> Subject: [pyrnet] Re: pyrnet-lDiana, goats & baby pyrs
>
> Diana,
> Those babies are so sweet! Gosh, there is nothing cuter than a Pyr
> puppy. Mum dog is a beauty too! Your animals look very well taken care
of.
> Love the goats. Are they just show goaties or do you get milk from them?
I
> have three pygmy goats as pets. Grace (My GP) loves them but they don't
love
> her. They still shy away when she is near them. She is so good with the
> outside animals. The three month old Pygmy goat "Rocky" got out of the
yard
> Saturday morning and Gracie went nuts barking to alert me. I didn't have
my
> glasses on at the time, so had to walk back to the fence to be able to see
> (in my nightshirt!) and he was in the woods trying to get back in. He is
so
> little. We spent the entire weekend beefing up every little nook and
cranny
> we could find that he might slip through.
>
> Linda and Gracie in SC
>
> http://www.geocities.com/gracej_us/Grace.htm
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:52:42 -0700 (PDT)
> From: kgranju@yahoo.com
> Subject: [pyrnet] not sure about trainer's methods
>
>
> > Last night Leo and I attended our first obedience
> > class since his puppy k-garten class. We signed up
> > for
> > a class local to me with a trainer who raises and
> > trains Pyrs and has had excellent success in
> > obedience
> > with his champion male Pyr.
> >
> > So we arrived there and I met the kennel owner and
> > the
> > trainer and then the six or seven other handlers and
> > their dogs all filed into an indoor training area.
> > The
> > trainer began his first night "lecture" on what to
> > expect from the class. All was going along smoothly
> > until he asked us if any of our dogs have nuisance
> > behaviors. A woman with a gorgeous young Australian
> > cattle dog said that her guy jumps up on people. So
> > the trainer approached the dog speaking to him in a
> > sing songy sort of voice that seemed to me to sort
> > of
> > encourage/tempt the dog to jump up on him. When the
> > dog jumped up, the trainer swiftly raised his knee
> > and
> > knocked the dog backwards on the floor! I was
> > aghast.
> > If he had done that to Leo, I would have left
> > immediately. Leo is a very balanced dog --neither
> > dominant or submissive, but he totally trusts that
> > humans will not intentionally frighten or hurt him.
> > He
> > would have been very freaked out if that had
> > happened.
> > So anyway, I sat there feeling very uncomfortable (I
> > could tell the other dog's owner felt unsure of this
> > as well but she wanted to trust that this guy knows
> > what he is doing). So the trainer goes on to ask if
> > anyone else's dog has any nuisance behaviors. The
> > owner of a young Rott said that his dog barks too
> > much. SO the trainer got a spray bottle of bitter
> > apple and walked toward the dog (who had already
> > demonstrated that he was nervous and feeling
> > aggressive) and as the dog began to bark at him, the
> > trainer said "good speaking" in a soft, kind tone
> > and
> > then he squirted the dog directly in the face! When
> > the dog cowered next to his owner and stopped
> > barking,
> > the trainer said in the same tone "good hushing!".
> > The
> > cattle dog then barked (because the other dog had)
> > and
> > got the same treatment. By this time that dog was so
> > frightend of the trainer that he tried to hide
> > behind
> > his owner any time the trainer came near him. I
> > found
> > this approach incredibly confusing and I think the
> > dogs did too. There was NO WAY I was going to tell
> > the
> > guy that Leo barks like a madman way too much of the
> > time.
> >
> > The final thing the guy did that made me
> > uncomfortable
> > was to suggest that every dog in the class would
> > work
> > better with a pinch collar. He said that he strongly
> > discourages the use of a buckle collar when working
> > any dog. Leo does not need a pinch collar and I am
> > not
> > getting him one.
> >
> > So anyway, how does all of this sound to those of
> > you
> > who are more experienced with trainers?
> >
> > Oh yeah, one final thing, it was interesting for me
> > to
> > see that Leo is WAAAY bigger than either of his show
> > Pyrs (both adults -- one male, one female)
> >
> > Katie
> >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > The Great Pyrenees as Pet Page at:
> > http://hometown.aol.com/oxymomkate/index.html ***
> > Giant Breed Agility at:
> >
> http://www.egroups.com/subscribe/giantbreedagility***Jack
> > Russell Terrier Agility
> >
> at:http://www.egroups.com/subscribe/JackRussellAgility
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from
> > anywhere!
> > http://mail.yahoo.com/
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:59:32 -0400
> From: bamb@monmouth.com
> Subject: Re: [pyrnet] not sure about trainer's methods
>
> Katie, I'm not sure what to tell you. You can learn from any
> trainer, good or bad. I think I'd try another class with him, but
> I wouldn't turn over my dog's lead to him. I don't use pinch
> collars. I've never had the need to do so. At least he did give
> the Rottie some positive reinforcement. If, after attending the
> next class, you're still uncomfortable, drop out of the class, or
> attend without Leo and learn. In the meantime, look for a new
> class that has positive reinforcement techniques. What area of
> the country are you in? Perhaps someone on the list can recommend
> a class in your area.
>
> Barb Bowes
> Bo & Chelsea (Pyrs) & Flopsy (Pyr Shep)
> The more people I meet, the more I like my dog!
> bamb@monmouth.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:27:53 -0400
> From: mushroom@gator.net
> Subject: Re: [pyrnet] not sure about trainer's methods
>
> Katie, I'm not sure about the bitter apple spray, but I have heard of
> (and have done myself) the jumping encouragement. The rationale behind
> it is that you don't want a small child to innocently pat his belly for
> the dog to approach and smell, only to have the dog jump up and knock
> the kid over. You teach that the dog doesn't jump up no matter what the
> signal. There really is no reason for a dog to jump on a person other
> than for attacking an intruder, for which none of us (I'm sure) expect
> to use a Pyr.
>
> The barking, however, is odd, because there ARE times when I'd like Juma
> to bark, i.e., a stranger coming up the driveway, or a bump in the
> night.
>
> As for the choker collar, it is used to teach the dog to focus on the
> owner at all times. A dog on leash is expected to be a dog on command.
> I wouldn't want to have Juma pulling me along a busy intersection to
> inspect a squirrel, and have the gumption to do so because she has no
> respect for the leash. We choker-trained her during the first few
> months, and now she's on a buckle collar and KNOWS what it means to be
> "on leash." Much of this is doubly challenging because we're dealing
> with independent Pyrs.
>
> You have to ask yourself if this trainer is terrorizing the dogs or just
> training them. There is a distinct line separating the two.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:34:34 -0500
> From: Marci.Gruhlkey@asc.mhmr.state.tx.us
> Subject: RE: [pyrnet] not sure about trainer's methods
>
> >>> So anyway, how does all of this sound to those of
> > you
> > who are more experienced with trainers?
> >
> > Oh yeah, one final thing, it was interesting for me
> > to
> > see that Leo is WAAAY bigger than either of his show
> > Pyrs (both adults-one male, one female)
>
>
>
> Katie, I don't blame you for feeling uncomfortable! I would too. I do
think
> I would try and find someone in your area that uses positive
reinforcement.
> I found that works much better with Montana Bear (and he is more than just
a
> little alpha dominant).
>
> I can't take it when a trainer is like this one appears to be. I don't
know
> about the dogs, but they make me want to cry when I see them treating the
> dogs that way. But maybe I'm too soft hearted. I'm sure others on the list
> whom have more experience will give you advice, but IMHO if I'm
> uncomfortable, I'm sure my dog would be also. If nothing else he would
pick
> up on my uneasiness. Montana is very sensitive to how I am feeling and
gets
> very protective when I am upset. :-)
>
> My friend, Jack, says, "Anytime you are uncomfortable with a trainer on
the
> first night, walk out and request your money back. If you are
> uncomfortable, so is your dog. Even if the trainer were presenting good
> techniques (and I don't think this one is) you would not follow his lead,
so
> why pay to be taught what you won't use? Get up. Get out. Get your
money
> back."
>
> Good luck with the training, what ever you decide to do.
>
> Marci Gruhlkey and Montana Bear
>
> marci.gruhlkey@asc.mhmr.state.tx.us
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:47:25 -0400
> From: kdbooth@mindspring.com
> Subject: Re: [pyrnet] not sure about trainer's methods
>
> Slightly off subject ...
>
> I may have misinterpreted this, which is easy to do in email, but why
> shouldn't I expect my pyr to attack an intruder? It's true that we didn't
> get pyrs for protection but since having them, I feel much safer,
especially
> when Bill is on travel and I'm home alone. I have no doubt that Daisy
would
> attack an intruder. She seems to be fine with guests but she definitely
> doesn't like the exterminator or the oil man. We have to crate her when
> they're prowling around. (Right now, all Badger could do to an intruder
is
> bruise his shins with the e-collar or give him a nice coning in the rear.)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dark Forest Mushrooms <mushroom@gator.net>
>
>
> There really is no reason for a dog to jump on a person other
> > than for attacking an intruder, for which none of us (I'm sure) expect
> > to use a Pyr.
> >
> > The barking, however, is odd, because there ARE times when I'd like Juma
> > to bark, i.e., a stranger coming up the driveway, or a bump in the
> > night.
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:54:30 -0500
> From: janices@austin.rr.com
> Subject: Re: [pyrnet] not sure about trainer's methods
>
> Katie,
> The trainer doesn't seem to be up-to-date on newer techniques for
> teaching. These are all older techniques but still in use.
>
> It's your choice. Try again and in the meantime look around for
> someone else. Some places to get names of trainers are:
>
> Association of Pet Dog Trainers
> http://www.apdt.com/
>
> National Association of Dog Obedience Instructors
> http://www.nadoi.org/
>
> Listing of Clicker Trainers
> http://www.wazoo.com/~marge/Clicker_Trainers/Clicker_Trainers.ht
> ml
>
> As with anything buyer beware. It's always better before signing up
> for a class and paying the money to go observe the class and see
> how the trainer works with people and their dogs. Hints for trainer
> searches: http://www.apdt.com/trainer.htm
>
>
> Janice, janices@austin.rr.com
> Lana & Linsey (newfs), Sonny (pyr)
> http://home.austin.rr.com/janices
> Hutto, TX
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:58:06 -0400
> From: kdbooth@mindspring.com
> Subject: Re: [pyrnet] not sure about trainer's methods
>
> Katie,
>
> I agree with your feelings that the trainer was confusing the dogs. I
> thought the way to break bad habits is to catch them in the act, not
> necessarily set them up for it. Had he sprayed anything in my dog's face,
I
> would have walked out. I've had loads of success getting my dogs to
behave
> themselves with just pats and sweet talk. Maybe you should look for a
> trainer who uses positive reinforcement instead. I'd feel like a
worthless
> heel if my dogs only minded me out of fear. Trust your gut feeling; we
> women are good at that unless it involves a man ;-)
>
> Kim
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Katie Allison Granju <kgranju@yahoo.com>
> To: <pyrnet-L@pyrnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 7:52 PM
> Subject: [pyrnet] not sure about trainer's methods
>
>
> >
> > > Last night Leo and I attended our first obedience
> > > class since his puppy k-garten class. We signed up
> > > for
> > > a class local to me with a trainer who raises and
> > > trains Pyrs and has had excellent success in
> > > obedience
> > > with his champion male Pyr.
> > >
> > > So we arrived there and I met the kennel owner and
> > > the
> > > trainer and then the six or seven other handlers and
> > > their dogs all filed into an indoor training area.
> > > The
> > > trainer began his first night "lecture" on what to
> > > expect from the class. All was going along smoothly
> > > until he asked us if any of our dogs have nuisance
> > > behaviors. A woman with a gorgeous young Australian
> > > cattle dog said that her guy jumps up on people. So
> > > the trainer approached the dog speaking to him in a
> > > sing songy sort of voice that seemed to me to sort
> > > of
> > > encourage/tempt the dog to jump up on him. When the
> > > dog jumped up, the trainer swiftly raised his knee
> > > and
> > > knocked the dog backwards on the floor! I was
> > > aghast.
> > > If he had done that to Leo, I would have left
> > > immediately. Leo is a very balanced dog --neither
> > > dominant or submissive, but he totally trusts that
> > > humans will not intentionally frighten or hurt him.
> > > He
> > > would have been very freaked out if that had
> > > happened.
> > > So anyway, I sat there feeling very uncomfortable (I
> > > could tell the other dog's owner felt unsure of this
> > > as well but she wanted to trust that this guy knows
> > > what he is doing). So the trainer goes on to ask if
> > > anyone else's dog has any nuisance behaviors. The
> > > owner of a young Rott said that his dog barks too
> > > much. SO the trainer got a spray bottle of bitter
> > > apple and walked toward the dog (who had already
> > > demonstrated that he was nervous and feeling
> > > aggressive) and as the dog began to bark at him, the
> > > trainer said "good speaking" in a soft, kind tone
> > > and
> > > then he squirted the dog directly in the face! When
> > > the dog cowered next to his owner and stopped
> > > barking,
> > > the trainer said in the same tone "good hushing!".
> > > The
> > > cattle dog then barked (because the other dog had)
> > > and
> > > got the same treatment. By this time that dog was so
> > > frightend of the trainer that he tried to hide
> > > behind
> > > his owner any time the trainer came near him. I
> > > found
> > > this approach incredibly confusing and I think the
> > > dogs did too. There was NO WAY I was going to tell
> > > the
> > > guy that Leo barks like a madman way too much of the
> > > time.
> > >
> > > The final thing the guy did that made me
> > > uncomfortable
> > > was to suggest that every dog in the class would
> > > work
> > > better with a pinch collar. He said that he strongly
> > > discourages the use of a buckle collar when working
> > > any dog. Leo does not need a pinch collar and I am
> > > not
> > > getting him one.
> > >
> > > So anyway, how does all of this sound to those of
> > > you
> > > who are more experienced with trainers?
> > >
> > > Oh yeah, one final thing, it was interesting for me
> > > to
> > > see that Leo is WAAAY bigger than either of his show
> > > Pyrs (both adults -- one male, one female)
> > >
> > > Katie
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > The Great Pyrenees as Pet Page at:
> > > http://hometown.aol.com/oxymomkate/index.html ***
> > > Giant Breed Agility at:
> > >
> > http://www.egroups.com/subscribe/giantbreedagility***Jack
> > > Russell Terrier Agility
> > >
> > at:http://www.egroups.com/subscribe/JackRussellAgility
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from
> > > anywhere!
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com/
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
> > http://mail.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to esquire@pyrnet.org with
> > unsubscribe pyrnet-l
> > as the BODY of the message. The SUBJECT is ignored.
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of pyrnet-l-digest.20000718
> ***********************************
>