Re: [pyrnet] Recessives and carriers

["Linda Weisser" <lmweisser@olywa.net>]

----- Original Message -----
From: <JGentzel@aol.com>

Even though the genetics are quite different, I look at it as something
like
hip dysplasia.   I think we all know it will always be there.  We are ever
vigilent and eliminate affected animals from our breeding program, but we
know it might reoccur again somewhere down the line.  I think most of us
think we have have good sucess with this method and feel it has been
sucessful. >>

I absolutely agree here.  I would only ad that a really "determined"
breeder does not use even a clear dog that comes from a line with dysplasia
"problems" and is extremely cautious when using a clear dog that comes from
a line with *no* prior certification history.

<<What you have just set up requires for ethical breeders with any of these
carriers in their background to disclose to their puppy buyers that their
puppy has a 50/50 change of being a carrier and producing dwarfs.>>

Yes, I do think that that is necessary.  At the same time I think that it
is necessary to explain to the these buyers the implications of that
"fact".  How frightened or not (I think not) they ought to be about it.
Unless, as I have said before, some form of test breeding has shown that
the carrier status of that individual has not come down through the line.
Padgett speaks clearly of retrospective test breedings.  Not all breedings
that turn out to be tests are done with that in mind.

<<  I
challenge you to give me the name of one dog offspring from American stock
that goes back 20+ years that does not have one of the carriers back there.
>>

I don't have that whole stud book but I can probably get that info.  As I
said earlier there are LGD breeders who do not have the dwarf risk in their
stock.  And, there are show/pet breeders whose animals have been shown not
to carry the dwarf gene down the generations.  And to the best of
everyone's knowledge, pure Soleil line dogs do not carry a dwarf risk.  You
(and many of us) may work with lines where there is, and has been, a risk.
Not everyone does.

<<Do you know anyone who tells their puppy buyers that their puppy has a
50/50
chance of being a dwarf carrier, when it is back that many generations?  >>

Yes, actually I do and I also know of buyers who would have been much
better served if someone *had* told them.

<<Under your
scenario we, none of us, should be breeding anything.  Is that what you
intend and feel is in the best interests of the breed?  Tell us, then who
is
left breeding?  >>

NO--that is absolutely NOT what I said.  There is a huge difference between
knowing what is in a line and what the risks are, and not breeding at all.
What I said is that everyone who breeds has a right to a complete
understanding of what genetic risks are lurking in their breeding stock.
At that point it is entirely their choice what to do.  It's also my postion
on hip certifications.  Without such certification (which does *not*
include your vet's opinion on your dog's hips) you cannot have a good grasp
of risk.  it's all like playing poker with your cards face down on the
table.

Linda