Re: [HoE] Re: Templars and Anti-Templars

[Coucouvinis <deimos@tig.com.au>]

Steve Crow wrote:

>
> Heh, of course than Jo is way too rough on a lot of people as well...
>

Absolutely, but not to the same extent with the same sorts of people that Simon
is - and you don't see Jo getting blackballed, do you? (of course that may have
to do with...other factors... ;-])

> So we're back to, what _is_ the punishment for being too lenient?  No other
> punishment (of any sort) is suggested that I recall.
>

I don't think a *punishment* as such is called for, but that's just IMHO - I
feel that it's better for a Templar to be a bit too lenient than a bit too
harsh. Of course, if the Templar is constantly going out of his/her way to
rescue biker gangs, then Simon may well have words to say - at which point,
they'd be blackballed, which isn't really a punishment by itself...more a direct
command to "git your behind back Boise right quick" to explain themselves and
make amends/whatever. That bit is really more up to how the Marshal sees Simon.

> And if Templars are free to be "too lenient," doesn't that strip them of
> some of their flavor (which I like, although not necessarily for PCs)?
>

It's not so much that they're free to be lenient...I think (and this has been
said before by other people, so I'm sorry if it sounds familiar) that Templars
fit very well into a heroic posse, or one in which everyone is a Companion
(although I wouldn't like that...yech) - if the other players are making
characters who aren't out to make the West a better place, then the Templar
isn't going to fit in very well, just like any other character who has the
heroic hindrance or yearnin' or something of that ilk.

That said, if the rest of the posse is making a heroic posse, and one player
makes a Templar, and the posse get to a town which the rest of the posse thinks
is worth helping against Black Hats or whatever, but the Templar doesn't, then
this is a problem the player has caused - not the rules for Templars. I have
played in games before where one player has completely screwed the rest of the
party over because of "playing in character" and it tends to lead to a bit of
bad blood.

A solution to the "Templar problem" is to simply get the players together before
making characters and have a quick discussion about basic directions they want
the game to go in. If most people want to make up their own road gang and cruise
for gas and guns, then a Templar isn't going to fit in well. Likewise, if most
of the party want to make a group of roaming mercenaries who help those who can
pay, then again, the Templar's not going to fit in well. The party may evolve
over time to become a group of bona-fide heroes, but until they do, most
Templars simply would not join the group.

> Well, actually that's another point of confusion on our part.  but it boils
> back down to, again, if those Templars are acting in a non-Templar-type way
> to the degree they're getting Hise's blessing...what _does_ Simon do?  Let's
> say that blackballing is out.  What does that leave that keeps the player
> and his character in the group?
>

(OK, you've done it now...I've had to walk to my room and pull out *the book*...
;-P)
Last Crusaders, p. 47
'[St. Hise] is angry that her death was the foundation for our order's "test of
worth." She realizes the importance of the Templars, however, and appears to
those few who occasionally break our own rules.
This contradiction has been noted by our Grand Master. He does not condemn those
Templars to which she has appeared, but instead thanked them for honestly
reporting the conditions of her patronage. He realizes the role of the Templar
is a difficult one, and exceptions must sometimes be made to the order's rules.'

I think that should cover it - I assume the same applies to the other saints who
are less than fantically harsh.

Nick "IMHO and IIRC" Coucouvinis