Re: [pyrnet] Consider breeding carriers (a proposal)

[JGentzel@aol.com]

In a message dated 9/23/00 10:39:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
lmweisser@olywa.net writes:

<< The question being addressed was whether or not these
 deformities caused the dog pain, discomfort etc and further, whether they
 made the dog a "bad" pet for those who wanted one.  >>

First I disagree that, that is the question, but the dogs with gnarled and 
disfigured joints and limbs are not pain free.  I do not think we should be 
trying to supply such pets, even if they were.

<>

What single breed of dog well established is any dog you list above the 
single result of a mutation in their genetic make up?  Do you even know if 
the dogs have a genetic defect like the Dwarf Pyr is theorized to have?  I am 
not aware of the associated genetic defects related to these dogs.  Does the 
corgi have deafness associated with their shortness?  Name the single breed 
that the Corgi is a Dwarf of or the single breed any of the other above are 
short dogs are the resultant of the mutation as we believe likely causes the 
Pyr Dwarf. I do not think that is what we are talking about here at all

<<Are you saying here that carriers will pass on these problems to other
"normal" Pyrs.  IOW, that dogs that don't "look" like dwarfs will have
problems?  If so, there is absolutely nothing to indicate that.>>

No, what I am saying is that just because you cannot see the genotype does 
not mean we will not see it in later generations phenotypically.  This is 
relative the disfiguring and associated genetic defects including deafness, 
not just short legs (although to me that would in itself be enough to 
completely disqualify this breeding as anything that we as breeders of Great 
Pyrenees could ever accept). You may have that cute short dog, but there will 
be an incidence of deformed dogs and other genetic problems much higher than 
in the normal population of Pyrs.  This is not acceptable.  But the dog that 
does not look like a dwarf can throw them, they are called carriers.  I 
suppose the associated problems are carried as well?  If they are do we know 
if the associated problems might be seen alone in some offspring?  I suspect 
none of us know such things, but I suspect it is within the realm of 
possibility that we should not just dismiss it.  Phenotypical dogs produce 
dwarfs and the associated problems.  Can we agree on that?

<<Yes, they are either breeding affecteds or they are breeding carriers to
each other.  Nothing new or startling about that.  We could produce litter
after litter of dwarfs too if we wished.
>>

That's my point.  And as you put it so well, we could and so they can, 
produce litter after litter without the marker.  If they want to they will, 
because the mutant is out there now in sufficiently large enough numbers that 
they can do it if they want.

Joe