Re: [pyrnet] Pyrs without Dwarf producing ancestors

[SovreignPyrs@aol.com]

In a message dated 12/30/00 1:11:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
lmweisser@olywa.net writes:

<< I would ask Sharon if she has contacted anyone on the health committee to
 enquire about what is currently happening concerning dwarfs.  Hoping that
 you see it in the Bulletin is not, it seems to me, the action of someone
 really deeply interested. >>

Well I stand corrected here Linda.  As a newcomer to the breed, I was told 
that the bulletin was the "gospel" in pyr circles.  And its just blind luck 
that I subsribed to this list a week ago. I knew nothing of these arguements 
going on within the breed .  So give me a bit of time to come up to the 
current events shall we.

Am I to assume that i would get different infomation on contacting the 
committee direct?  I doubt it.  I guess I assumed that what was printed in 
the bulletin was all that was known up to the point of publication.
But judging from the number of emails I have received, almost no one is clear 
on exactly what the committee is doing beyond arranging  for DNA samples and 
pedigrees.  I assume this is all sent to the researcher.  But from that point 
what happens?  Do we sit around and wait till he developes a test.  I realize 
that seems logical.  That we all need to be patient. 
BUT, how long will this take him?  Could be decades don't you agree.  In 
point o fact it has been decades research has ben working on this.  Ask teh 
MAL people how long they've been looking for a genetic marker.  The Beagle 
poeple the same. Meanwhile we all want to breed sound healthy dogs.  I can't 
believe anyone wants to breed an afflicted puppies no matter what the disease 
is we are talking about.  Dwarfism happens to be the subject here. 

What did we do?  The only thing we could.  We set up a genetic pedigree data 
base.
Found ourselves a geneticist and started working from there.  To be sure at 
first it required courage for those breeders to come forward and amdit teh 
problem and file the pedigree, but they are universally admired for doing so. 
 Rather than everyone getting defensive over this one or that one gossiping 
over this dog or that, guess what?  We all discovered that it was a far 
bigger club thtn we knew.  That NO ONE was immune.  The genes were spread far 
& wide.  Breed long enough and you will turn up something, trust me on this.

And guess what those researchers do not have time to study pedigrees and give 
us probabilities on every breeding.  Their job is research and we should 
leave them to it, just like we've done with the Beagles.  I now have the 
luxury of submitting a proposed breedings pedigree to Ada and she can tell me 
the risk factor involved in any breeding, whether I'm asking about dwarfism 
or epilepsy or whatever (we use the data base for all health problems).  If 
the individual owners did not want actual information on their dogs released 
and they happen to be in a pedigree I submit, then she tells me not to 
llinebreed or inbreed on say this or taht quarter of teh pedigree without 
naming any particular dog.  If however the owners have released all 
information, she can give me more detail. And I've even had the ability to 
contact teh owners of these dogs if I wish and see if they can help me to 
breed more intelligently based on what they've tried to get around a problem. 
  

<And both of you..  What projects do you want to see undertaken?  And I am
asking for specifics.  Not endless details, but  a bit more than "We
should....."  or "Who is".

Certainly the Health Committee is always open to volunteers.  As a matter
of fact the lack of people who actually *want* to work is a major problem.
If anybody thinks that we should be doing something that we are not, please
create a "plan" and present it to the committee. 

Well twice you've asked, and twice I've said i'd help anyway I can.   We NEED 
this database, and the give and take of a good geneticist.   And I don't 
think anyone has ever accused me of not wanting to work at anything before.  
I am secretary to two clubs, do rescue work for both pyrs and Beagles, and am 
putting on a Beagle Specialty in one week.  

I personally have volunteered three times to several committees within GPCA.  
And have had no response.  Apparently only people of importance within the 
breed are considered.   I suggest you look around, most of the commitees have 
no new faces on them in many years.
Could it be taht the reason there are no volunteers is that these people are 
not being heard?

I bring 35 years of breeding experience to Pyrs.  Is it a fault to want to 
breed the best?  I don't think so.  If the large numbers of people who have 
contacted me are any indication, I'd say both sides of the dwarf issue are 
unhappy at the moment.  Perhaps we need a way to rally both sides together 
for the good of the breed.   

If its not possible to unite everyone; we will not get anywhere.   That would 
be a shame if it was the case.  

Linda I understand that thee seems to be a seige mentality here.  Truly I do. 
 But I really do not think people are on a witch hunt.  They are scared.  
They are hearing gossip and innuendo (and a lot could be false you must 
admit), and they don't know what to think.  Even teh breeders of many years, 
are likely not sure exactly what their risk is.  

To the wonderful people who shared the knowledge of their dwarfs with me I 
thank you.  And its amazing how many are willing to provide the information 
to a data base as I describe it.
Linda it seems both sides of the fence would be happy with the thsi proposal. 
 is this a way to get past the bickering?  I think it might.  Such a database 
benefits EVERYONE  we have found.

So lets hear from the list.  I realize the courage needed here.

Sharon Hodgdon