Re: [pyrnet] LGD breeders (was Shelters and Breeders)

[JGentzel@aol.com]

In a message dated 1/29/01 8:05:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, tom@edge.net 
writes:


> Probably, but if I were to get a 4-6 month old house-bred dog from a 
> conformation breeder, the chances would be very good that it would take 
> many months to learn how to guard.  During that time, I might have a dog 
> that would try to play with the stock, try to get back into the house, or 
> one that would have no interest in guarding my flock.  So ... I'd probably 
> go t a breeder who raises his/her dogs for guarding, and with a flock, 
> rather than for conformation, and in the house.


You are making a lot of assumptions above that simply are not true in the 
main.  You "probably" and you "might" get all the above with any dog.  In the 
main Pyrs guard naturally and instinctually.  This very old ingrained 
instinct is not lost at present in any breeding lines that I am aware.  Even 
in England where basically LGD do not exist and never have, English bred dogs 
for many generations, have come over and guarded naturally and just as 
effectively as the worker dog breeders.  You have to understand that most 
breeders of working dogs started off either with dogs from other worker dog 
breeders who "all" went back to the show kennels. They bought off the bottom 
of the litters or from puppy mills.  Basically they started with the least of 
the bunch in all respects.  What makes you now think these dogs suddenly 
become super Pyrs.  Like begets like basically.  They bought into and now 
promote the notion that is self serving that their dogs guard and show dogs 
do not.  It is not true.  There will always be problem individuals in any 
line of breeding, but in the main all Pyrs guard and guard naturally and 
effectively.  The real argument that is valid is some show kennels have no 
interest in their dogs guarding and actually promote them as not to be used 
for same.  That's their choice, but their dogs will guard if placed a working 
environment.  
Conformation breeders want looks and body structure as much as they want LGD 
performance. 
Certainly you are not saying that a good structure in a working dog is not 
important?  The beauty part is simply a natural functional by product of the 
breeding that occurred in the Pyrenees Mountains for very possibly 5000 
years.  The one area I would be very critical of show breeders is the coat.  
Some of them are not suited for guarding and tangle and mat too much.  The 
instincts of the dog are there for guarding, but the coat would foul the dog 
up too much.  There is a correct flat coat that is dry and does not catch the 
shedding undercoat that is lovely and can win in the show ring easily, but 
some have and want the more wiry stand off coat that they can fluff out and 
actually groom the dog to appear larger and cover many faults.  There are 
many breeders for show who do not want that because it is not correct, so 
this practice by some does not change the subject any in my view.  

Joe