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Hi Cindy: You wrote: I am a firm believer that when a >dog bites, there is a reason. We owe it to the dog to find out why. To them if a >dog bites, it must be put down. I want to know why it bit first, and I >don't think it makes it a confirmed biter. I think they deserve respect >for their history when it is humans who mess them up in the first place. > * I agree with this totally, especially about it being us humans who mess them up in the first place. I have found out through temperament testing with Zeus, that alot of his fear biting was reinforced by me. Of course purely innocently. I was also temperament tested by his behaviorist. Let me explain the results, and how I did not allow Zeus to use his first instinct(flight) when he felt pressure, but gave him no choice but to resort to his lesser instinct(fight). I was told "strongly" that a Pyr needs alot of socialization, and I pushed too hard. I'll put in the words of the trainer, maybe this will help laments like me, understand the importance of gauging each dog and "socialization." methods. I put it all here, so its long, I just thought some of you may be interested. If you want me to write the definitions of each of the dog traits, let me know. If your interested. Sariena --- Quote from trainer: Zeus is an Analytical type dog with a strong Amiable secondary. He also has alot of his energy and time spent in defense drive (both fight and flight). I think I'm beginning to see what may have happened. This suggests that "socialization and exposure" may have been pushed too much. His response was at first to feel mounting stress but have no real good mechanism to deal with it (at early age the response of choice would be to leave). >My reply: >>Your right, ****, I was told how important socialization was for Pyr pups, that I probably did push to hard, and forced the issue to hard, (I took him everywhere) when he wasn't ready. >>And being a very shy and timid pup, he was probably overwhelmed. >>. Trainer: He would remain focused on his main source for support and reassurance (a pack member). . My reply: >Again, I can see your point, instead of giving him ways to deal with his fears, I coddled and protected him. . Trainer: As he got older he began to develop more defense drive fight behaviors (this is normal and they are not fully developed until 2 years of age). As his flight option had often been cut off and as he started to develop fight options which worked (got him out of uncomfortable social situations) he started to use these behaviors more. Me: >Yes if I started to see his defense's go up, I would either remove him from the situation, or the source of his stress, again without trying to work through these problems. I did not how else to deal with this. >. Trainer: Please understand, I am not trying to blame or fault find. What seems to have happened is a misunderstanding of what the puppy needed (based on alot of poor information about how to socialize all puppies). The social needs of each puppy are different and stem from the dogs individual personality. You are an Expressive with a strong Driver secondary - just the opposite of Zeus. You do have a fair amount in common in the social/expressive areas. However, as you tried to expand on these areas (through "socialization"), it is possible the puppy got overwhelmed. More explaination: Me: > I have read the material over and over, all the dogs traits. I do see some > of Zeus in both those traits Amiable and Analytical, but some of the > explanations, although sounds like him when he was younger, don't describe > him, the way he is now. > Maybe these were the type of dog that he started out being, but has changed > due to my pushing social situations on him as a pup? Do you think this could > be correct? ================Trainer: Yes I do. His underlying personality won't have changed however; so the change you see is an adaptive one (the way he adapted to fit the circumstances he was repeatedly confronted with) =============ME: >Do you think that because I'm a Expressive and Driver, that I > put some of me in him, or taught him to act out the same? Which is against > his nature? Do you think as he matures, and "finds himself", he'll return to > what he is inside? ==========Trainer: You didn't put some of you in him but influenced him in a way that comes most natural to you and that you are most comfortable with. He will be much more comfortable as he returns to who he is inside. However, it is important that rules he understands are not changed. Don't try to make it easier for him because you feel sorry for him. Just take some of the pressure off socially (use distance from social experiences to gage his comfort levels). Lots of short journeys where he has success in low stimulation (social) will build confidance (walks around the outskirts of town etc.) In sisuations that are starting to get stressful, give him plenty of things to do that help him keep focused on a task. Use any of the suggestions from the Analytical and Amiable sections that are helpful. ============ME: > Also when you get time, I know how hectic it can be at this time of the > year, could you tell me the results of the Drive Profile? ============Trainer: His strongest drives are in the defense range with fight slightly higher than flight. This means he can take a correction from you with out falling apart. As soon as he responds appropriately to the correction, give him something to do (such as sit) and begin quietly and warmly praising with 5 seconds of gentle touch (a tickle behind the ear etc.) His scores Prey 58%, Pack 62.5%, Defense Fight 70.8% and Defense Flight 62.5% . He does have some traits from the other areas as you noted. He is 23% driver and 20% expressive. However, he is more likely to use the analytical traits he has first (if they will work for him) as this is closer to his core personality. You are right though in suggesting that you need to be aware of all his traits and be ready to respond to them all. END >Your story absolutely proves my point. I remember you saying how careful >you are with her and cautious because of that past, but you gave her the >chance. As she gains security in your love, she continues to better. >Most dogs deserve that chance. Fewer people are willing to give it! I >just don't think it so easy to condemn these animals. Cyn |