Re: [WW] OT America under Attack Letter

["nvdoyle" <nvdoyle@home.com>]

Why was this posted to the list? This is -nothing- but insults, inflammatory
comments, popular revisionist history, most of it erroneous.

I do think that commentary about the horrific events of yesterday is
appropriate, but this has devolved into something ugly and sad. That there
has been reasoned discussion about WW on this list, and the hope that
someday there might be more, is the only thing that stayed my hand from
unsubscribing.

At least Mr. Seyberth made his arguments -privately-, and did not force it
on the rest of us. Whether or not I agree with him, he did follow the
ettiquette of the list.

I am hereby politely, yet strongly, requesting that Cpt. Canuck be removed
from the listserv. This might be extreme, yes, but if we cannot abide by
simple rules of conduct, then there should be consequences.

Noah


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cpt. Canuck" <canuck@superaje.com>
To: "Allan Seyberth" <darious@darious.com>
Cc: <deadlands-ot@gamerz.net>; "weird wars" <weirdwars@gamerz.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 2:04 AM
Subject: Re: [WW] OT America under Attack Letter


> This has gone way too far.
>
> This thread has nothing to do with Weird Wars.
>
> It is simply a US propoganda machine, and a flame war.
>
> If you are so afraid after these attacks, it still does not excuse
> verbal insults to me or about Canada.
>
> Canada is aiding you, and yet you lash out.  We take your flights, put
> up your people, feed them, and send you blood.
>
> No one should help the USA, but they do.  This was a tragedy, and some
> on this list are making a mockery of it, and the people who died.
>
> The USA is not the world, nor has it ever been.  You do not rule by
> fear.  In fact, you do not rule.  Most the world doesn't take you
> seriously, but these attacks show someone has.  You stepped on someones
> toes.  They did something terrible.  Perhaps even evil.  So has the USA,
> more times than I can mention in one eMail.  Does that make every US
> citizen evil?  No it does not.
>
> Comments about Pearl Harbor are ridiculous.  Your government let those
> people be killed to bring the nation behind them in entering the war.
> They knew it was coming.  They crucified the General, and made McArthur
> a hero (who in fact had an identical [except he was actually at
> fault] instance happen to him in Africa).  Your government and media
> feed you
> lies, and propoganda to control you.  They create heroes and scapegoats
> throughout history.  Your nations arrogance, has made you hated, not
> feared.  Some US citizens travel with Maple Leaves on their luggage and
> clothing, simply to be treated well.
>
> Let's look at World War 2 some more.  Oh wait, you didn't enter until
> AFTER air superiority was taken back by the British.  Oh, yeah, the US
> were the only ones to lose a beach at Normandy.  Oh... What?  They have
> the highest friendly fire rates of any nation?  Say it ain't so.  The
> United States was a secondary force in WW2.  Sure they helped in
> supplies before then, and arguably aided with their military.  They were
> not the opposing force to Germany.  England was.  Russia could also be
> argued as a major force, but not the US.
>
> What about Viet Nam? Korea? 1812? Gulf?  Slaughtering the indians...
> Look up the Cherokee!
>
> Heck the War Of Independance would not have been won if the French
> hadn't saved you.
>
> Your Navy and NASA have each shot down at least one passenger jet.
>
> Truth, justice, liberty....  You say one thing and act in the opposite
> way.
>
> Tell me truthfully, what good has the US done.  Why should anyone be
> proud to be a US citizen?  I know many are, but why?  Simply because
> they were born there?  Perhaps that is reason enough.  Many in the world
> are proud to be citizens in their home nation.  Its the arrogance about
> your nation that causes me to require a reason.
>
> Regardless of all this, I feel you won't rest until you've caused more
> innocents to die (even if they're your own).  Stop posturing, and deal
> with the problem.  Actions
> not words.  Stupid actions don't help though.  Lashing out is simply
> wrong.
>
> Now, the moderator should be asking for peace, but instead I receive a
> flaming eMail from him.  What is this?
> This is an angering eMail.
>
> BTW, I really don't mean to start any flames, but since I've been on
> this list, I've read many attacks on Canada.  Read the history boys...
>
> What I would really like to know, is truly why are you proud to be a US
> citizen?  I honestly want to know.  Why would anyone decide to live
> there opposed to anywhere else?
>
>
>
> Allan Seyberth wrote:
> >
> > At 05:25 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, you wrote:
> >  >Allan Seyberth wrote:
> >  >> But still - when there are palestinians dancing in the streets
handing out
> >  >> candy - someone is going to get their ass kicked for this.
> >  >
> >  >As well in many other countries of the world.  The US is not loved.
> >
> > What?  Are you frogs still pissed that French is a dying language?
> >
> > And - after giving billions of dollars to humanitarian aid everywhere
> > around the globe, if we can't be loved, then I guess we'll have to
settle
> > for fear.
>
> You are not feared.  The world has compassion for you now, don't push
> your luck.
>
> >  >> "I fear that all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant, and fill
it with
> >  >> a desire for vengeance."
> >  >>                  - Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto (disputed)
> >  >
> >  >Unless the vengeance is taken out on those not responsible.
> >
> > "War is hell"
> >          - Gen Tecumseh Sherman, originator of the concept of total
warfare
> > in modern times.
> >
> > Sucks to be them.
>
> You don't even realize...  It is a pity.
>
> > It's a simple concept really - we have more nukes than anyone else.
Don't
> > fuck with us.  If you help someone fuck with us, and don't stop 'em,
then
> > you are going to get fucked.
> > If you hear about someone fucking with us, and don't tell us, prepare to
> > get fucked.
>
> Actually you don't.  Perhaps more than any one nation, but if all the
> nations that seperated from the Soviet Union ever combined again, you
> would be small potatoes.  Unlikely to happen?  Hopefully.   Regardless,
> as an old friend of mine always said, its not the guys with 100 nukes
> I'm worried about, its the maniac with one.
>
> > Of course, we need to consider the lesson of the Israelis.  Whenever
they
> > get targetted for a terrorist attack, they respond with massive force.
> > But it doesn't prevent the next civilian bombing.
>
> The more you tighten your grip, the more they'll slip through your
> fingers (loosely taken from Princess Leia).  Although China may prove
> that statement wrong.  They have an iron grip, over their own and of
> Hong Kong.  Do you want to be China?
>
> > So obviously we need to take it a step further.  I figure about 500
square
> > miles of radioactive glass would be a good starting point.
>
> This is disgusting.  The consequences to the US are staggering if they
> use nukes.  What sucks is your stupidity will effect Canada as well.  In
> fact it already does.  Your bloody nuke testing in Nevada effects us all
> to this day.  The Jet Stream from Nevada up into Canada is called the
> cancer belt for a reason.  You are foolish to open a can of worms you
> can't close.  You could always bomb more hospitals claiming they're
> chemical weapons factories though.
>
> > Hey - any of you canucks actually know this fuck?
>
> <shaking head>
>
> You just don't know.
>
> > -------------------
> > Allan Seyberth
> > darious@darious.com
> > Deadlands fan site - http://www.darious.com/
> >
> > Frisbeetarianism, n.:
> >          The belief that when you die, your soul goes up the on roof and
> > gets stuck.
>
> Now, this is still tragic.  The act, and the reprecussions.  What I find
> strange is the US peoples who don't even care.  "It doesn't effect me,
> so why think about it."  It is terrible, and everyones prayers should be
> with the injured, and the families of the wounded and dead.  Why not go
> help out?  Do something.  Stop screaming for blood and help.  Innocents
> should not have to die for this.
>
> I apologize if this eMail seems nasty, but some of it needed to be
> said.  I wish to inflame no one.  I will happily discuss history with
> anyone, but will not respond anymore to insane lashing out.  Losing your
> temper does no good.
>
> Peoples tensions may be high, but nothing excuses some actions.  If you
> disagree with me, than in a reasonable way, let me know, and we can
> either discuss it, or let it go.  Personally, if it doesn't have to do
> with World War II, it should be private eMail, not on the mailing list.
> Allowing this thread on this list, does nothing to aid the problem, it
> will simply be an emotional outlet for people who don't have another way
> to let it out.
>
> I do not hate the US.  My girlfriend is a U.S. citizen (and my first
> move was to call her when I heard).  My mother was born in the US.  Half
> my relatives are there.  Many friends, and even a sister in law is a
> U.S. citizen.  I know the U.S.
>
> I am not attacking every U.S. citizen with any comments, but I am
> criticising it as a nation.  Usually it is just a vocal minority that
> give bad names to the whole...  Prove it in this case.
>
> Remember this is a tragedy, and not to be taken lightly.  Not only were
> innocents killed, but some of those who tried to save them.
>
> Cap
>
>
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> unsubscribe weirdwars
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>