Re: [DL] d20 isn't realistic (OT) [response to Grand Master]

[balance@tubas.net]

On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 04:29  AM, Patrick Downs wrote:
> you're absolutely right, d20 is a streamlined version
> of AD&D and it didn't really change that much, it has
> some cool new features and it's a much easier to play
> and GM game than its previous incarnations

Yes! d20/3E is a streamlined version. They've removed the concept that 
1st and 2nd had where every new 'feature' had it's own, subtly 
diffferent system attached (IIRC, the worst example was 2nd Ed. 
Psionics, where you seemed to suddenly want low numbers on d20 rolls, 
instead of high...

> however, you're not right about why most people don't
> like it, i don't like it because yes my perception of
> the system changed, i've grown tired of level-based
> gaming and i prefer more realistic systems

I like both systems for different reasons. Major advantages of d20 
include a wide player base (most people have the PHB even if they won't 
admit it) and a general ease of adventure creation. The Deadlands 
classic system, however, fits the setting so well and has a lot of nifty 
bits like the card-based magic and intiative system,

> i wonder, is this a sign of aging?
> as a gamer gets older do they prefer the more
> reality-based systems that seem plausible and have a
> sound structure, as opposed to the wildly-mythic highs
> and lows of old AD&D gaming?

Well, moods change. IMHO, AD&D isn't 'bad' it's just not the perfect 
choice for some games.

My biggest problem is that D&D inspires a swat-team mentality that works 
poorly when the setting is built for fast-paced ultra-heroic style 
adventures. This has, unfortunately, bled over to other D20 releases 
(Star Wars being the one I've directly experienced)

> or is it a sign that i have somehow matured beyond the
> "introductory" system (most people start with AD&D
> because of its popularity and i've been playing these
> games for 18 years ya'whippersnaps!) and now i am
> moving on to more advanced game systems?

I;m only at around 12 years myself, and the only problem I have with D20 
is that character creation is such a chore even with the current 
ultra-streamlined system (and I don't play anything like wizasrds that 
require spellbook maintenance or the like).

Why? One is that the character sheet is so based on combat stats. The 
other issue is that there's very few ways to individualize a character 
that actually has a game effect. While I never liked the 2nd Edition 
Skills and Powers supplement, I have become a definite proponent of 
edge/flaw based systems as a way to make characters unique... 
Unfortunately, the Feat system in 3rd is still too limited for me.

> or is it a sign that in my youth (I'm only 25) i have
> grown tired of the 'accepted' way of doing things and
> I'm rallying against the 'popular' gaming system?

There's always a backlash against the popular. I think in this case, 
however, it's a natural response to what appears to be a lot of products 
moving towards a lowest common denominator...

> or is just a sign that i spend WAY TOO MUCH time
> playing rpgs and i've finally found the one i like?

Very possibly!

> p.s.- this thread should really be taken to the OT
> list now

To drag it back a bit, I may get to run Deadlands (classic)for my usual 
3rd Ed. D&D group tomorrow.

I'm going to do full character generation for the early arrivals (The 
House owning couple, and one other person who's punctual) but whatever 
chunk fo the group arrives late will be picking from archetypes to get 
things going. Character creation, while relatively quick for a 
non-Arcane background types, is still enough of a slowdown I want to 
avoid it. I'm minimizing Arcane Backgrounds (Maybe one total, preferably 
a blessed or mad scientist(with the preface that he'll never get a 
chance to build anything new).)

Then the adventure: Either Night Train (This group's very smart: they 
can handle it, and it's a one-shot so PC deaths are cool) or Adios 
A-Mi-Go (there's some CoC fans). I'm still trying to decide which one I 
can do in a long session (figure we start playing at 3, and end up 
around 10-11 or so, so there's time.)

Any suggestions from the list?

--
Brett

LORD, WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPER 
MAN? (Reaper Man, Terry Pratchett)