Re: [PyrNet-L] Work, Show or Pet?

[JGentzel <JGentzel@aol.com>]

In a message dated 98-03-26 14:57:33 EST, you write:

<< Things I feel make a good LGD, a dog who will stay with the livestock or
 in it's territory and be a deterrent to loses.  Breeders with the knowledge
 and experience available to help the buyer.  Access to printed articles or
 to others with the knowledge they are willing to share.   Owners who
 will work with the dog through the good and problem times and will not put
 the animal in a "no win" situation.  A LGD is not a dog that is just tossed
 out in a field, it is an animal that has taken more than one person many
 hours of time from planning the breeding to the adult animal doing a
 successful job.
 Kerry >>


Hi Kerry

You are correct we did have this discussion on the previous list.  I recognize
the list you referenced as having that point of view.  Not surprising since
some of  them publicize that they "specialize" in working stock.  Some of them
are  reported to dismiss what some guard Pyrs  are doing as "not really
working".  So seems the task performance is related to the observer and their
agenda or biases (we all have them you know).  Myself and many other simply
disagree and my proof is in the progeny over the years and many others as
well.  The non-alpha dogs will work as well.  I just have not seen any
relevant difference  that resulted in a dog not working.  I have seen dogs
that would not stay in the field as they wanted to be at the house.  That is
another problem and a very difficult one.  It is also related to individual
dogs and this discussion is not related to individual dogs but the premise
itself as it relates to the breed.  No responsible person would advocate
"tossing a dog out in the field", as in anything there is work that needs
doing to get the dog set up and working properly.

<<Jeff Green and Roger Woodruff also found that some pyrs had a better
working attitude and ability than others.>>

There have been many unscientific observations by observers of the breed that
purport to have some scientific relevance.  I suggest it may be antidotal and
not valid.  I can only offer you what happens with my dogs and I believe my
dogs are fairly representative of the breed from an instinct basis.  I would
have no hesitation placing my dogs in the same situations as those breeders
who specialize in working stock and expect and know they would do just as well
as theirs.    I don't think you or they have any evidence to refute my
experience.   I am not discouraging your attempts to identify the best
workers.  I just think that generally the breed is very successful doing their
job and it is unfair to the breed to suggest otherwise.  Now some will
certainly be more competent than others, but all work and work successfully.
That's what we are talking about.  I recognize you and others have a different
point of view, I respect it completely.  I responded to your initial post that
I felt implied that your point of view was some accepted fact that had been
decided long ago.  

Joe