Re: [PyrNet-L] bitches cycling patterns?

[Kshoffman@aol.com]

In a message dated 9/2/99 11:42:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
dneal@scan.missouri.org writes:

> When Patti and Crisi  where at my house they both came in every six months.
>  What happened when they moved to your house, that changed that?

Hi Delores!

Don't exactly know what the difference is, guess that's another reason for me 
to be curious as to other peoples' experiences.<G>  I really suspect it has 
at least something to do with pack dynamics, and also something to do with 
the effect/amount of light (I know this has been studied and written about, 
but can't find a reference/citation handy.)  As I recall, according to the 
"light theory", subtle differences such as amount of time spent indoors vs 
outdoors, amount of exposure to "artificial" light as opposed to sunlight, 
etc., can all have an impact.

Additionally, I've heard similar experiences from other breeders (regarding 
change in cycling patterns) in cases where mature bitches have a change of 
locale and living arrangements. Actually, Patti in my experience was pretty 
darned close to being a 6 mos cycler until sometime between age 5 and 6, and 
then she started having slightly longer intervals between cycles, but still 
well within the normal range. Crisi had a longer interval between cycles in 
my experience, at least 7-8 mos in between, but again, an older bitch. 
Neither seemed to have any fertility problems, both whelped litters here. I'm 
sure I've read that it is quite normal for the interval between bitches 
cycles to get longer with age.  Other than that, I'd have to surmise the pack 
dynamics and where they "fit in" was perhaps different here than it was there.

> In 30 years we have only had two that came in season
> off the six month. And those two never had a pup.  the maltese
> never want six months and they had no effect on the Pyrs.

According to most books I've read that address this subject, cycles longer 
than 6 mos (within reason) are quite normal, cycles shorter than 6 mos are 
more likely to be indicative of a repro problem.  Can't answer as to why your 
Pyrs didn't seem to react to the Maltese's cycling pattern, but I can tell 
you that here, Rosemary rules the roost as regards pack dynamics between the 
bitches so maybe that makes a difference. <VBG>

As I look back on things, I'd have to say that historically, when my bitches 
are young and first start cycling, they are more apt to cycle close to every 
6-7 months, but that as they age and mature, the interval seems to get a 
little longer between cycles.  I don't consider cycling less often than every 
six months to be a sign of repro problems (necessarily -- can be in some 
instances depending on other factors.) There haven't been any indications of 
thyroid dysfunction with my girls, and actually I generally test thyroid on 
maiden bitches before they are bred for the first time, generally between 
ages 2-4 yrs, and haven't yet had one come back anything other than within 
the normal range.  On the other hand, never really had a reason to repeat the 
thyroid levels on any of them as they aged because it never seemed warranted 
to me -- haven't seen any of the common symptoms of thyroid dysfunction such 
as weight gain or loss, poor haircoat, etc.

Kelley Hoffman
kshoffman@aol.com