[PyrNet-L] Shock collars and pinch

[Kiradaw@aol.com]

Hi All, I hope I don't offend anyone here, but I have been reading the on 
going argument about this subject. First, I think we are going to have to 
agree to disagree, everyone has their own approach to training. I have put 4 
CD"s on Pyr's and a CDX on one, it is not easy and every dog is different, 
and every animal. I have been a professional horse trainer for 20 years, I 
usually get in the ones that others have failed with, I turn most of them 
around and make them easy to live with. I have several World Champions and 
International Champions. Most of these horses were trained under harsh means, 
which is not my way and why I am able to turn them around. I have never used 
a shock collar and don't think I ever will. The pinch collar on the other 
hand used right is much easier on a dog than other collars, you do not use 
them forever, you cannot show in them. I trained Kim in a pinch and she would 
rather be with me than any other place, you don't give the correction the dog 
does. When I do put a pinch on her she sits nicely and allows me to put it on 
her without a problem. Let me get out the ear cleaner though and she is out 
of the room, I tried the clicker method on KIM she hated it so much she would 
run when she saw or heard it. She didn't like the sound, the clicker trainer 
says it doesn't work on every dog and not to use it on her. I do train with 
treats and praise, and positive reinforcement with my voice. I have never 
hurt my dog with a pinch collar, or else she would let me know without a 
doubt. She has been in training long enough that she is very reliable on or 
off lead. I do not let her loose in public, for her sake, I can yell leave it 
and she will stop what ever she is doing and come to me. Teaching a leave it 
command is invaluable! I will say that I'm surprised to hear those of you who 
do not think a pinch collar proper would kick hit or spray a dog with 
peppermace. I would much prefer that you went after the owner through proper 
channels than to pick on the dog that has no control over being loose or 
trained properly. I train my dogs so they are safe and easy to handle, so 
that in any situation I have the upper hand, and I have very happy dogs. 
Sullen dogs do not do well in the show ring, happy ones excel, my Pyrs have 
scores in 180's and the 190's on a regular basis. I also have a Border Collie 
and he is a breeze to train compared to a Pyr,they each have their own way. I 
am willing to help anyone as much as I can through the list, that is if I am 
not kicked off after this. I love working with animals and people, hope to 
talk to you later ..........Debbie