[PyrNet-L] Was Pyrlist digest 20000130 - now prices and education

I agree with both of you that to price the puppies correct is very important, but I have been considering your idea that people paying very high prices are more eager to breed in effort to recoup the price of the puppy, and I don't agree. Now here in Denmark most pyr-breeders try to keep similar prices - a kind of standard price. There is no rule about this, but most of us find it a good way to do things. It is not the norm here to price puppies according to expectation - show, breeding or otherwise - so few if any puppies are sold to above ordinary price, some - like me - sell all-white puppies cheaper.

The standard price of pyrenees are a little below the breeds that we naturally compare with such as the newf, the saint bernards, the leonbergers and the berner sennen. This is annoying but neccesary as pyrs are more difficult to sell.

I used to breed cats also, and still have some contact into that world, and in cats it is common to price kittens individually. A close friend of mine is a hugely succesfull cat-breeder, and is one of the people selling some of her kittens to really high prices, and believe me, the people who buys these very high-priced kittens are people already deeply involved with the breed, they are breeders or showpeople willing to pay extra to get something that is way above the ordinary quality. What I am trying to say is, that yes, these high-prices kittens will be bred, but not for the buyer to get the money back, they are bought to improve a breeders stock.

We all have our different prejudices, and I may be stepping on a few toes by what I am going to say, but I find the idea that an animal - whether it be a dog, a horse or a cow - should at least pay its way, preferable show a profit, very much a farmers way of thinking. Nothing against farmers, but I don't usually sell my puppies to farmers for the simple reason, that generally speaking they won't pay the price, and they won't put up a fence, so I don't often come up against that way of thinking. Actually I tend to think it is the other way round, that people who will not pay a high price for a pup, is often the ones, who think their dog was expensive and want their initial outlay back. Certainly almost all the unregistrered litters I can think of here in Denmark are out of cheaply bought bitches.

I think the price should be decided with a wiev to the cost of raising a litter, meaning that a good normal sized litter with no out of the ordinary problems and not too difficult to sell (all puppies sold at 3 - 4 month) should show some profit. You never know when you will have a litter where things go wrong and your money is pouring down the drain. If we want breeders to do it properly, go for the best male, even if it means traveling, maybe importing new breeding stock once in a while, and so on, it is important that they have at least a good chance of breaking even not to mention have a little profit on a litter.

For me the reason not to over price the puppies is that I want my puppies to go the best possible home, not necessarily the richest. Anyone with an average income should be able to afford one. Don't get me wrong, it is not that I will not sell to someone who is not well of, all I want is to be sure that the people can afford not just to buy the puppy, but to feed it properly, to put up good fences, to take it to the vet if necessary. I am below average income myself, but I have no family and kids to consider, so I am in a position to put my dogs first.

Very high prices may scare some people of, but so may very low ones. As I said in Denmark pyrs are cheaper than the other big breeds, and I have had people being suspicious because of that, they are afraid that the dogs are cheaper because the quality is not good.

As for people wanting the money they pay for a puppy back, I can tell you that most of the people who buys females from me, say that they want to have a litter at some point. I have never had anyone telling me, it is because they want their money back, and I have never felt that this was behind it. I am not a big breeder, I have had 7 litters in the last 9 years, so I do not have the vast experince that some do, but none of these people telling me they want a litter has gone through with it, and this is where education comes into it.

Like Jan said it is important to get new people to join the breedclub, so here in Denmark every new pyr-owner gets a free membership for the first year, even if they are not otherwise active, they get the magazine and get to know some of what is going on. More important of course is the information from the breeder. when puppybuyers tell me they want to breed I tell them some of the good and some of the bad stuf about breeding, but I dont immeadetly throw a lot of negative information at them. I think it would make some of them suspicious, believing I am trying to scare them off to corner the market myself. Much better to keep close contact in the begining so they can see for themselves the kind of trouble I and other established breeders have selling the puppies. As most of them lives in towns or outskirts of the bigger cityes, they can figure out for themselves that to have maybe four or more 3 - 4 puppies that you have not yet sold in a closely populated neighborhood is a problem. I find most of my puppybuyers intelligent enough to think a little for themselves. So far that approach to the problem of people wanting to breed has worked for me.

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