Re: [pyrnet] Sande & dwarfs

[JGentzel@aol.com]

In a message dated 1/6/01 3:02:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
lmweisser@olywa.net writes:


> I have already sent this to Joe privately but i did find a source of this
> kind of comment from Dr. Sande.  I finally found both of the evaluations of
> the x-rays of the "normal" dwarf.  At the end of his letter concerning this
> dog and his two affected litter mates and three unaffected was this
> paragraph:
>
> "Further, it is my opinion that if the Pyrenees breeders would agree to
> welcome the dwarf puppies as lessr Pyrenees and market them as novelty
> exotic pets, they could develop significant financial reward as well as be
> able to quickly identify the carrier status of the breed.  Short of this,
> the test breeding program will be extremely expensive and divisive."
>
> Nothing about this statement leads me to believe that it was intended in
> any
> way to be tongue in cheek.  Given the above I have a hard time believing
> that Sande believes that dwarf Pyrs have serious, painful, debilitating,
> even crippling problems.
>
> I also think that it says something interesting about his opinions of test
> breeding programs, especially since he was directly involved with the one
> for the Mal club.



I have waited several days to offer any information.  Linda and I have had 
several emails secondary to the post.  Not sure we have agreed on much, but 
that is what makes discussions stimulating i.e. different view points.

I am troubled by the written statements attributed to DR Sande.  I have asked 
and been denied a copy of the full report to see the full context of same, so 
what I say is at some disadvantage.  

1.    My observations are that a phenotypical normal or near normal dog might 
have a different comment than one more involved.  This report involved a 
normal or near normal phenotypical Pyr.  
2.    Assuming that Dr Sande's comments were directed to the whole of the 
Dwarf population in Pyrs and by association I do not see him excluding other 
breeds, I do not think this is what the breed wants or desires ("lesser 
Pyrs").  Dr. Sande is a Scientist.  Scientists use animals in many ways and 
by some observations not always in the most humane way.  So it might be 
presumptive to assume that we "Given the above I have a hard time believing 
that Sande believes that dwarf Pyrs have serious, painful, debilitating, even 
crippling problems."  From the information given we simply do not know what 
he believes and what he would find as acceptable in an effort to identify 
carrier status.  There might very well be a huge difference in what he 
considers acceptable and what most of us would accept.
3.  It does appear to be his opinion about the quickest cheapest way to get 
to "quickly identify the carrier status of the breed."  I am at a 
disadvantage here, but a Scientist may not have the same constraints and 
perceptions of what is acceptable in getting to a result.  This is actually 
not much different from test breeding, i.e., you produce affected animals 
crippled or not in order to clear specific dogs.  So in reality DR Sande's 
comments are no more or less than a test breeding but on a much larger scale. 
 Obviously he has some different concerns for the breed characteristics than 
some of us.  It appears he might think us rather shortsighted by possibly not 
being open to such a suggestion.  He almost looks like he is throwing out 
some financial inducements to do same.  Anyway, it is difficult to use such 
limited information to draw such conclusions.  It is also very possibly not!
 
fair to DR Sande to speculate on such limited information one way or the 
other about what he believes or thinks either as a scientist or otherwise.  

Since it has been brought up as some endorsement and a presumed indication 
that no crippled or suffering dogs would be produced, I cannot think that 
would be a fair even deduction from such a limited statement.  That is not 
what the few words said.  Pure speculation at best.

To me there is a bigger problem with bringing this information out like this. 
 I have addressed this directly and not publicly, at least at this point in 
time.

Joe