Re: [PyrNet-L] Canine Nutrition

["Tracy Bassett" <espinay@dynamite.com.au>]

Hi Jan,

<<My concern was the over-supplementation of calcium, raw meat when raising
Pyrenean ( or large breed puppies) and the increased incidence very recently
of HOD (hypertrophic osteo dystrophy) on a Pyr puppy being fed such a diet.
This problem is  rare in Pyrs and in the 2 cases I have known of, diet
contributed to the HOD. >>

Can you  tell me exactly waht was being fed in what amount? (including any
additional supplements?)  As I said before, I think, all 'natural' diets are
not created equal.

<< Ignorance is bliss I know this but in one case ignorance was not bliss
but sheer stupidity and could have been avoided with "correct nutrition".
Until one has bred and raised Pyr puppies  to try and "experiment" using Pyr
puppies disgusts me. >>

Raw diets, done with the proper research by the owner, are no more an
experiment than choosing the 'correct' kibble.  Can you tell me what
differences there may be in raising a Pyr pup as opposed to a Newf, Mastiff,
Bernese Mountain Dog or Great Dane?

<< The suffering from HOD that a puppy goes though is unnecessary in this
day and age in my opinion with all the information now available.  You
accelerate the growth rate, you get the problems you deserve but the puppy
does not.>>

A BARF diet done correctly is designed for slow growth.  The aim is for
lean, slow growing pups, not roly poly ones.  This is stressed very much as,
yes, the damage from growing a pup too fast is very well known.  However,
this can happen on kibble too.  From what I have seen and heard (and in my
limited personal experience) this slow growth can be achieved very well on a
BARF diet.  Have a read of Ian Billinghursts "Grow Your Pups With Bones" for
more information on this.  His book is very comprehensive.

<<All may not agree with the prepared puppy foods of today but why risk your
puppies in uncharted waters?>>

Who said it was uncharted?  A commercial dog food company may have not done
any 'tests' on it, but we are talking in some cases of people with 15 or
more years experience raising large breed pups on a BARF diet.  Believe me,
BARF feeders are skeptics too.  They have done the 'research' however and
have proven that it works, and works well.  There is a large amount of
experience out there to be drawn on.

<< I would like to see the people who promote the "home diets" and know the
exact calcium/calorific dietary requirements for my Breed tell me that their
puppies from 8 weeks have not suffered any growth problems also keeping in
mind that "genes" can  have an effect on growth patterns too. >>

Here is a lab report of one breeders basic BARF diet for her GSD's:
http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/riverien/nutrienvirolab.htm  Sorry I don't have
a lab report for one fed to Pyrs :-/.  This is however similar in content to
what I feed my own dogs.  From all reports from this breeder, her pups have
not suffered growth problems as a result of the diet.

Here is a breeders list for those subscribing to the BARFCanada email list
(another small offshoot of the big BARF list):
http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/riverien/barfcanadabreeders.htm . There are no
Pyr breeders listed, but there are quite a few breeders of other large
breeds.  Perhaps they can answer some queries for you on how large breed
puppies do on such a diet.   Subscribing to the "Natural-Giant" list at
Onelist may also provide some good information .

<<To subject your puppy to HOD, OCD just to mention 2 things because you
wish to play "Food Roulette" and prove your point is tantamount to cruelty
in my opinion when the puppy suffers joint problems.>>

Who is playing 'food roulette'?  BARF is not an experiement.  It is a tried
and true method.  I would hazard to say that most people feeding a BARF diet
do more research into their dogs nutrition requirements than most people
feeding commercial foods.  And who is trying to prove a point?  If you don't
want to feed a natural diet, then don't.  If you don't want to know about a
natural diet, then don't.  But it is just as much a legitimate choice for
those who choose to feed it as feeding a particular brand of kibble is.  And
we all must make our own choices.

Tracy Bassett
Canberra, Australia
espinay@dynamite.com.au
visit my webpage at http://members.dynamite.com.au/espinay/index.htm