Re: [WW] Weird Wars Problems - Savage Worlds - D20 Modern

[Joey Fanning <wraith530@comcast.net>]

Gun usage made easy.
1.Point gun barrel at target.
2.Pull trigger.
3.Repeat as nessecary.
If I can interject here, Mr. Canuck, the instant replies to dissenting
e-mails are starting to look bad for you.  Almost as bad a ME.  While one
can easily gain information on any time period with libraries, the History
Channel, and the Internet, it's good to have in a book because, well, that's
the book's setting.  And, as it's been stated before, it's not particularly
important that you know HOW to use a gun.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cpt. Canuck" <canuck@superaje.com>
To: <weirdwars@gamerz.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: [WW] Weird Wars Problems - Savage Worlds - D20 Modern


> Steven \"Conan\" Trustrum wrote:
> >
> > At 02:42 PM 10/8/02 -0400, Cpt. Canuck you wrote:
> > >Steven \"Conan\" Trustrum wrote:
> > >Nor do I care about the 'creation of guns.' Not exactly a good analogy.
> > >Most of us have swung a stick and have an idea of what swordplay is
> > >like.  Many people have never shot a gun, or have any idea about
> > >gun-problems.  I'm sure that it'd be boring to gun-enthusiasts, and
> > >those who carry guns around with them all day.  Even historians
> > >dedicated to WW2 may have no idea about guns.
> >
> > Then again, most people have seen a movie where someone's used a pistol
or
>
> There's a little difference between a movie and actual knowledge.
> Movies aren't necessarrily realistic.  But... point taken.
>
> > >Excuse me for offending you with this tripe.  No one said anything
about
> > >pages and pages of notes, just some gun info for those who know nothing
> > >about them.  Sure, it can be played without knowing anything about
guns,
> > >but considering the large amount of what you call 'tripe' in simply
> > >history lessons that could easily be read on the net, another page of
> > >gun info isn't so much.  What about all the 'tripe' about the generals
> > >and other info all readily available on the net?
> >
> > It didn't offend me, but I can't believe that someone would seriously
want
> > someone to include this in an rpg when it is VERY accessible. Basically
you
>
> Sure its accessible, but what's even more accessible is the mounds of
> extra info already included.  You're argument that it shouldn't be
> included because I could spend my own time researching it is moot.
>
> > want the rpg company to save you the time of doing some research on your
> > own. And yes, when trying to put a manuscript together, spending even
just
> > a single page on this (something that really isn't at all necessary for
> > playing the game unless you've been living under a rock and think that
the
> > bullet comes out of the butt of the rifle) is asking quite a lot. It's a
>
> So you've told me that I've been living under a rock.  You are very
> adamant that this shouldn't be included.  That's fine, I think it
> should.  Non of your arguments hold water IMO.  The fact is though, that
> it doesn't matter at this point.
>
> > rare moment when a publisher says to an author "we don't have enough
info
> > here, think you can throw in a few filler pages, maybe something about
gun
> > operation?" Quite the opposite. It is usually the publisher telling the
>
> Hmmmm....  If the WW rulebook was just mechanics, it'd have been quite
> small.  Perhaps by being that small they might think it wouldn't sell as
> well.
>
> > author to cut his manuscript down by X amount of pages to meet their
layout
> > projections. This means that if I see a book with something this
> > unnecessary in it, I can't help but think about how better the space
could
> > have been used.
>
> Fluff is nothing new to RPG products, but what I would have liked to see
> wasn't fluff historical info, but actual aids to RPing and the mechanics
> of the game, as well as giving gun newbies a little info.
>
> > As for the stuff about the generals, that is more relevant to the game.
It
>
> What about the pages and pages of historical information?  Hey, I'm not
> complaining about the fluff, but your argument was that you only wanted
> mechanics, and that's why you don't want gun info.  Yet you defend the
> fluff.
>
> Too be honest I haven't seen any relavence in my sessions to the
> Generals.  Perhaps much later on, but certainly not anytime soon.  Hey,
> that info is easy to acquire from movies like PATTON, and books, and
> hey, why should the company do any research, it's the players
> responsibility anyhow isn't it?
>
> > >Regardless, I don't think people can understand unless they're the ones
> > >who don't know guns.  Its just like computers.  Those who know them
> > >can't understand people who don't.  Jeepers man, there is no 'ANY' key.
> > >Your CD-ROM is not a cup holder!
> >
> > This isn't analogous at all because you trying to operate a computer for
> > real isn't the same as you buying an rpg book and saying "my character
> > wants to use a computer." I played several rpgs involving VR and
computer
> > hacking for years before I even owned or operated a computer. If I'd
bought
> > the an rpg book on a cyberspace and it was filled with descriptions on
> > bytes, kilobytes, processor speeds, data transfer rates, the differences
> > between 64 and 128 byte encryption, etc. I would have rushed to see if I
> > could return the bloody thing.
>
> If you'd never used a computer before, knowing the basics would be a
> real asset in any session.  Otherwise its just a magic box that you
> don't even know how to turn on.  See Hank Hill (King Of The Hill)
> pointing the mouse at the computer and pressing the mouse button over
> and over to turn it on.  You don't need endless details, and you
> certainly could fill a whole book the size of the rulebook with all gun
> info, just like you don't need all the info about computers, but the
> basics are very useful.
>
> > >As well, considering the game is heavily based on gun play, more info
on
> > >those guns wouldn't be terrible.
> >
> > That's what a library is for. A role-playing company is about making
> > role-playing games, not about providing resources and history or
technical
> > lessons for the material covered in those same games. It goes without
>
> The magic-user casts spells, we don't need to know how.
>
> I'm sure the Mechwarrior RPG would be much better without all that
> technical tripe.
>
> Perhaps it just depends on your realism in your game too.  Heck, I'm
> sure many don't bother making their players reload, or even count ammo.
>
> > saying that if you have enough interest to play a game based in WWII
that
> > you will A) either already know enough to do so or B) have proven enough
> > interest to learn more on your own.
>
> Games are never passing fancies in this world.  No one would ever go,
> "Hey that sounds neat, let's give it a try?"
>
> It's easy to learn history, information about the Generals, the
> resistance, and the landscape of Europe in WW2, but actual gun usage is
> not as easy.  Regardless, I see people who'd love to see more maps of
> the war torn areas.  Screw them eh...  Let's write an adventure, but
> we'll leave out all the why's and any information not mechanics
> related.  You have the bad guy, it's not important why he's the bad
> guy.  Just a different way of playing.
>
> Cap
>
>
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